Illusions

inkaStepa · #1 by **inkaStepa** » Aug 31, 2011 4:37 am

I was speaking with my yoga instructor and told her I was having a bad day. She told me there's no such thing as a bad day only my opinion. I agreed and said it was because I felt sad and she said emotions are also illusions. I said it's real because I'm experiencing saddness but she said that too is only my opinion. I asked what if I felt afraid and she said fear is a huge illusion so I gave up there trying to understand. Could someone please help me understand what she was saying about these things as dumbed down as possible? Thanks.

cavarka9 · #2 by **cavarka9** » Aug 31, 2011 5:06 am

go, get yourself a new perspective!. (but I think she was acting a eastern mystic or more likely stereotype of a buddhist ).

MrFungus420 · #3 by **MrFungus420** » Aug 31, 2011 4:41 pm

It's a yoga instructor.

She doesn't know what she's talking about.

It's typical, supernaturalist, "woo-woo" bullshit.

Pebble · #4 by **Pebble** » Aug 31, 2011 4:59 pm

Loosely translated - I am a guru, my thoughts are on a plane not of this world, I am above the mere physical. Come disciple, you too can be freed and learn to spout nonsense with sincerity.

Ironclad · #5 by **Ironclad** » Aug 31, 2011 5:05 pm

Kick her in the shins, tell her pain is a weakness leaving the body. :levi:

inkaStepa · #6 by **inkaStepa** » Aug 31, 2011 6:22 pm

Some of it makes sense though- like how perspectives are made up so are in a sense not real. But idk how comeone can change their mind in that kind of way without brainwashing themseleves sort of.

theropod · #7 by **theropod** » Aug 31, 2011 6:30 pm

Tell your yoga instructor that she is absolutely full of shit, knows far too little about the human condition to be making such stupid judgments and and see if she becomes influenced by an illusion.

Depression, and other emotional states, are often caused by real measurable things over which we have little or no control.

RS

The_Metatron · #8 by **The_Metatron** » Aug 31, 2011 6:32 pm

Like I've said before... Woo nexus.

Pebble · #9 by **Pebble** » Aug 31, 2011 7:35 pm

inkaStepa wrote:Some of it makes sense though- like how perspectives are made up so are in a sense not real. But idk how comeone can change their mind in that kind of way without brainwashing themseleves sort of.

It is true that feelings are constructs of our brains - however, that does not make them illusions. Emotions are reflections of your brain state not perceptions of stimuli and are part of your internal reality - potentially manipulable but not simply distortions.

"il·lu·sion"

noun
1. something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality.
2. the state or condition of being deceived; misapprehension.
3. an instance of being deceived.
4. Psychology . a perception, as of visual stimuli (optical illusion), that represents what is perceived in a way different from the way it is in reality.

inkaStepa · **#10** by **inkaStepa** » Sep 01, 2011 1:27 am

Oooh ok. She was telling the class how happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same coin and so to just "let go of the coin" but aren't happiness/sadness inescapable? I mean, unless someone has no wishes for his/her life or are emotionless? I really like the physical aspect of the class but the "practice part" is like this...confusing.

Grace · **#11** by **Grace** » Sep 01, 2011 5:26 am

inkaStepa, you think that's bad, get a load of this...

Love is only a bunch of chemicals moving around your body in response to menstrual cycles, hormones, pheromones, and a couple of feel good chemicals brought on by arousal. The feel good hormones can last 3-6 months, long enough to get pregnant, or 2 years, long enough to get a child out of the helpless stage.

z8000783 · **#12** by **z8000783** » Sep 01, 2011 5:38 am

As others have said emotions are real and are critical to your well being although we may not all exhibit the same emotions in the same circumstances. I am not sure what you teacher is saying exactly but if she is suggesting that they can/should be ignored or hidden away if you don’t like them, then you (and she) need to be careful.

Emotions are the state created when external perceptions are processed against your beliefs and values. They are important signals that something is happening, if you didn’t have them you would be comatose. They have no value in themselves, just like different coloured traffic lights, so don’t think of them as ‘negative’ or bad, they are all good in that they are doing a job. The key is what you do with the information they are providing, if you are fearful then there is something wrong and you need to act quickly, if you are angry then someone (including yourself) has violated your values and if you are hungry then it’s time for lunch.

Listen to what she says and think about whether any of what she is saying is useful to you, exactly as you do when you read these posts and if not, discard it and move on.

John

MrFungus420 · **#13** by **MrFungus420** » Sep 01, 2011 7:40 am

inkaStepa wrote:Oooh ok. She was telling the class how happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same coin and so to just "let go of the coin" but aren't happiness/sadness inescapable? I mean, unless someone has no wishes for his/her life or are emotionless? I really like the physical aspect of the class but the "practice part" is like this...confusing.

Yoga is stretching.

Yoga is stretching in a very inefficient manner that does very little for you.

The rest is magical bullshit.

redwhine · **#14** by **redwhine** » Sep 01, 2011 8:12 am

Ironclad wrote:Kick her in the shins, tell her pain is a weakness leaving the body.

Mantisdreamz · **#15** by **Mantisdreamz** » Sep 01, 2011 8:43 am

z8000783 wrote:As others have said emotions are real and are critical to your well being although we may not all exhibit the same emotions in the same circumstances. I am not sure what you teacher is saying exactly but if she is suggesting that they can/should be ignored or hidden away if you don’t like them, then you (and she) need to be careful.

Emotions are the state created when external perceptions are processed against your beliefs and values. They are important signals that something is happening, if you didn’t have them you would be comatose. They have no value in themselves, just like different coloured traffic lights, so don’t think of them as ‘negative’ or bad, they are all good in that they are doing a job. The key is what you do with the information they are providing, if you are fearful then there is something wrong and you need to act quickly, if you are angry then someone (including yourself) has violated your values and if you are hungry then it’s time for lunch.

Listen to what she says and think about whether any of what she is saying is useful to you, exactly as you do when you read these posts and if not, discard it and move on.

John

Well put

The_Metatron · **#16** by **The_Metatron** » Sep 01, 2011 9:23 am

MrFungus420 wrote:
inkaStepa wrote:Oooh ok. She was telling the class how happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same coin and so to just "let go of the coin" but aren't happiness/sadness inescapable? I mean, unless someone has no wishes for his/her life or are emotionless? I really like the physical aspect of the class but the "practice part" is like this...confusing.

Yoga is stretching.

Yoga is stretching in a very inefficient manner that does very little for you.

The rest is magical bullshit.

Can you expand on your second point?

trubble76 · **#17** by **trubble76** » Sep 01, 2011 9:25 am

MrFungus420 wrote:
inkaStepa wrote:Oooh ok. She was telling the class how happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same coin and so to just "let go of the coin" but aren't happiness/sadness inescapable? I mean, unless someone has no wishes for his/her life or are emotionless? I really like the physical aspect of the class but the "practice part" is like this...confusing.

Yoga is stretching.

Yoga is stretching in a very inefficient manner that does very little for you.

The rest is magical bullshit.

While I agree that yoga has two parts, physical and spiritual, and that the spiritual side is entirely wooish nonsense, I'm not sure I agree about the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the stretching that you claim. I don't have any super, special knowledge about yoga, beyond having a friend that teaches it, and having experienced a little of it myslef in India.

Could I press you to expand on your claims?

zulumoose · **#18** by **zulumoose** » Sep 01, 2011 9:38 am

inkaStepa wrote: She told me there's no such thing as a bad day only my opinion

To an objective outsider, a day where many things go wrong for you does indeed count as a bad day, for you. The day itself may not be objectively bad, but in the context of your life, it absolutely can be.

inkaStepa wrote: she said emotions are also illusions.... fear is a huge illusion

They are illusions in the sense that they are a mental construct, not usually an objectively verifiable physical thing. You could theoretically make them go away just by changing your mind about them, but in reality there are also chemical and biological processes involved that I don't pretend to understand. A technique or drug that helps you control your emotions could help, since nobody really wants or needs to be depressed or fearful, except when the fear assists with survival, but that doesn't necessarily support the idea that they are illusions.

Yoga is one of those things that focus on emotional states and relaxation, and it is certainly in their interest to believe that emotions are controllable and that they can help with that. When they start telling you it is all an illusion then I would guess you have run into someone whose belief has 'crossed over' beyond what seems practical and true, and entered the arena of the spiritual.

Many things are done correctly for the wrong or misguided reasons though. You can be just as protected from illness if your food and personal cleanliness routine is motivated by religion as by knowledge of germs, if done in a similar way. If you carry on with yoga you will likely get the benefits of stretching, relaxation, and meditation, regardless of whether you think their explanations and philosophy are factual or not, as long as you don't start stressing about whether they are.

MrFungus420 · **#19** by **MrFungus420** » Sep 01, 2011 11:00 am

The_Metatron wrote:
MrFungus420 wrote:
inkaStepa wrote:Oooh ok. She was telling the class how happiness and sadness are 2 sides of the same coin and so to just "let go of the coin" but aren't happiness/sadness inescapable? I mean, unless someone has no wishes for his/her life or are emotionless? I really like the physical aspect of the class but the "practice part" is like this...confusing.

Yoga is stretching.

Yoga is stretching in a very inefficient manner that does very little for you.

The rest is magical bullshit.

Can you expand on your second point?

Stretching for more than about 30 seconds does not increase the benefit, so holding poses for minutes at a time isn't really accomplishing anything. Or so I've been told by physical therapists.

trubble76 · **#20** by **trubble76** » Sep 01, 2011 11:29 am

MrFungus420 wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
MrFungus420 wrote:
Yoga is stretching.

Yoga is stretching in a very inefficient manner that does very little for you.

The rest is magical bullshit.

Can you expand on your second point?

Stretching for more than about 30 seconds does not increase the benefit, so holding poses for minutes at a time isn't really accomplishing anything. Or so I've been told by physical therapists.

Ah, that may well be true, but if you ask a decent practitioner they will tell you that positions are the important part, not stretches. Holding a position for longer than 30 seconds definitely does have advantages, for example for core muscle strength.
The thing to remember is that not only are there a lot of dippy new-age yogis that know very little, there are a lot of different types of yoga, some of which do not include holding positions or stretches at all.

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