Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Paganism, Taoism etc.

Moderators: Blip, DarthHelmet86

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1561  Postby Fallible » Oct 12, 2014 10:52 am

Did you notice how you suddenly dropped delusions from the quote hack provided? You type the word, but you are only concerned with talking about hallucination. It's easier in your mind to dismiss hallucination because you think it occurs very rarely, and yet the number of sightings is large, so that's what you focused on. Of course there is also the possibility that people misremembered what happened or that they are so keen for the happening to support a belief already extant that they convince themselves that what they saw could not be explained in any other way, augmenting or embroidering their accounts in order to make their experience more outlandish.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1562  Postby hackenslash » Oct 12, 2014 11:52 am

quas wrote:The tests will not yield anything if you're totally clueless.


Agreed.

You must have some general idea of the probable causes.


Wrong. You need a hypothesis.

In order to carry out tests, you need to have the right test conditions set up. The proper test settings and the proper instruments to obtain and measure test results.


Correct, but you miss the point entirely, which shows me just how well you understand the scientific method. You set up your test not to test the phenomenon in question, but to test your hypothesis against the phenomenon, by deriving the consequences of your hypothesis and seeing if your predictions with regard thereto are manifest in your observations.

Here, you are totally clueless.


Yep, that must be it.

How do you know that EVERY single case of unexplainable events must have been witnessed by fuckwits?


I don't. I do know, however, that every single case of somebody leaping to an unsupported conclusion from incomplete information without exploring more parsimonious explanations that are actually supported by swathes of evidence is a fuckwit. Note the distinction.

I should also note that my scouse friend has already pointed you to the operative word there, namely 'unexplained'.

And you determine that how?


And I'm the one that's clueless.

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem - The late, lamented cleric of Surrey.

Because you know you are not on drugs.


You don't have to be on drugs to hallucinate. There are many circumstances not requiring drugs that can bring on hallucination, as the parable of The Nurse and the Entomologist should readily teach anyone.

That said, you don't even need that. It's well known that even the tiniest changes in your brain chemistry, of the sort that routinely occur in every living organism, can lead to hallucination. They needn't even be coherent hallucinations in reality, not least because of our amazing ability to recognise patterns, even where there are none, such as we get with pareidolia.

The human brain, you see, is a virtual reality generator par excellence. It generates your entire view of the world. Even the tiniest changes in the balance of your brain chemistry can cause your perceptions to misfire. There is no mystery here.

You know that hallucinations only occur in very rare circumstances.


No, they occur in everyone a fair portion of the time.

Sleepiness, drugs, medication, unstable psychological condition (severe depression? mental illness? who knows?), brain trauma or injury, etc.


Normal changes in brain chemistry, which occur in all of us at times, seems to be missing from your list.

If every single case of unexplainable events ever witnessed must have been hallucination or delusion, then you are probably hallucinating as you are reading this post now. Maybe you are asleep as you are reading this. It's some sort of sleepwalking thing going on. You think you are awake, but you are not. You can't trust yourself. Ever.


I never said it must be hallucination or delusion, only that those are more parsimonious explanations than fucking ghosts (as are many others)! Do you understand anything at all about the nature of enquiry? Wurzel asked me if you could stop hitting him please.

There's also been events that have been witnessed by more than one person. Must have been mass hallucinations, because we all know how commonly that occurs, which is to say all the time.


They certainly do occur, and indeed can even be stimulated.
User avatar
hackenslash
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 21440
Age: 51
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1563  Postby hackenslash » Oct 12, 2014 12:04 pm

I should add something to this bit:

You set up your test not to test the phenomenon in question, but to test your hypothesis against the phenomenon, by deriving the consequences of your hypothesis and seeing if your predictions with regard thereto are manifest in your observations.


You also derive from your hypothesis a prediction about something that, if observed, your hypothesis is definitely incorrect. That bit is actually how scientific progress is made. We set out to test our hypotheses by attempting to break them. It's the scientific version of the reductio ad absurdum.
User avatar
hackenslash
 
Name: The Other Sweary One
Posts: 21440
Age: 51
Male

Country: Republic of Mancunia
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1564  Postby kennyc » Oct 12, 2014 12:53 pm

John Platko wrote:
quas wrote:
John Platko wrote:Ok. How about?

Only a fukwit would expect scientific evidence for a supernatural phenomenon which by definition precludes such evidence.


But as long as you are talking about evidence, then you are talking about an observable phenomenon and that's empirical data.


Yes. And we can count the number of eyes on the cow. We can observe supernatural phenomenon however we just can't expect to find scientific evidence to support it.


If that's the case the you are NOT OBSERVING it, you are imagining it.

It's quite simple.
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1565  Postby kennyc » Oct 12, 2014 12:55 pm

John Platko wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Observable by whom? If they're observable, they're testable, thus not supernatural. Well done, you just killed your own idiotic position by failing to understand it.

In any event, supernaturalist assertions always have the same deep flaw, namely that they fail the test of the shaving implement of the late, lamented cleric of Surrey. There are many explanations far more parsimonious than ghosts to explain what observations have been asserted, namely delusion, hallucination, inculcation into fuckwitted belief systems, drugs and indeed all manner of idiocy, all of which constitute better explanations and, moreover, we have evidence in support of them.

The status of the supernatural is, in my working hypothesis, the empty set. This is an easily falsifiable hypothesis. Yours isn't. It's worthless and stupid.


Well, that's one way to weigh the evidence. Obviously others, in this case, those that see Shiva in the cows third eye, weigh the evidence differently. However, how we weigh evidence should not be conflated with what is evidence. :nono:


Nor is evidence IMAGINED.
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1566  Postby kennyc » Oct 12, 2014 1:02 pm

John Platko wrote:.....

And exactly how do you expect one to go about showing that an observeable occurance has a supernatural cause?
....


That's your problem. Go for it!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1567  Postby John Platko » Oct 12, 2014 1:03 pm

ElDiablo wrote:
John Platko wrote:
ElDiablo wrote:
John Platko wrote:

Yes. And we can count the number of eyes on the cow. We can observe supernatural phenomenon however we just can't expect to find scientific evidence to support it.


And you continue with ridiculous conclusions.

A phenomena is an observable occurrence. The observable occurrence may very well be an illusion, like the image Jesus in a tortilla. To deem it supernatural you have to show that it has a supernatural cause


And exactly how do you expect one to go about showing that an observeable occurance has a supernatural cause?



The same way when someone claims that a monkey made out of oreo cookies performed brain surgery on an elephant using a magic banana.


And please don't misrepresent my statements. Like Hackenslash, I hypothesize that the set of all that is supernatural is empty.

Oh, that's your position now? No more dough balls as evidence of the supernatural?


Of course dough balls are still evidence for reincarnation, whether reincarnation be supernatural or natural. How I weigh dough balls is besides the point.
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1568  Postby Fallible » Oct 12, 2014 1:24 pm

Oh, of course. :lol:
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1569  Postby John Platko » Oct 12, 2014 2:20 pm

kennyc wrote:
John Platko wrote:
hackenslash wrote:Observable by whom? If they're observable, they're testable, thus not supernatural. Well done, you just killed your own idiotic position by failing to understand it.

In any event, supernaturalist assertions always have the same deep flaw, namely that they fail the test of the shaving implement of the late, lamented cleric of Surrey. There are many explanations far more parsimonious than ghosts to explain what observations have been asserted, namely delusion, hallucination, inculcation into fuckwitted belief systems, drugs and indeed all manner of idiocy, all of which constitute better explanations and, moreover, we have evidence in support of them.

The status of the supernatural is, in my working hypothesis, the empty set. This is an easily falsifiable hypothesis. Yours isn't. It's worthless and stupid.


Well, that's one way to weigh the evidence. Obviously others, in this case, those that see Shiva in the cows third eye, weigh the evidence differently. However, how we weigh evidence should not be conflated with what is evidence. :nono:


Nor is evidence IMAGINED.


The third eye on the cow is not imagined :nono: , it is really there. The evidence being weighed is very real. Imagination, along with personal bias etc., merely play a role in how the evidence is weighed.
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1570  Postby ElDiablo » Oct 12, 2014 2:26 pm

The only fitting reply to John Platko...
God is silly putty.
User avatar
ElDiablo
 
Posts: 3124

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1571  Postby John Platko » Oct 12, 2014 5:02 pm

ElDiablo wrote:The only fitting reply to John Platko...


I prefer:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yREM_PzaJbc
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1572  Postby ElDiablo » Oct 12, 2014 5:20 pm

It figures, you prefer the reincarnated version.
God is silly putty.
User avatar
ElDiablo
 
Posts: 3124

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1573  Postby John Platko » Oct 12, 2014 10:35 pm

ElDiablo wrote:It figures, you prefer the reincarnated version.


:lol:
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1574  Postby John Platko » May 16, 2015 3:05 pm

hmmmm. It has been suggested to me that I may have been Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz in a past life - this reincarnation thing may not be all dough balls after all. Find out who you may have been here.
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1575  Postby BlackBart » May 16, 2015 3:57 pm

William Lindsay Gresham. Never heard of him.
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12235
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1576  Postby John Platko » May 16, 2015 4:01 pm

BlackBart wrote:William Lindsay Gresham. Never heard of him.


William Lindsay Gresham. :shock: :o Uh Oh ...
I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1577  Postby BlackBart » May 16, 2015 4:06 pm

And the holy Roman emperor Conrad III so you can kiss my ring.
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12235
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1578  Postby Fallible » May 16, 2015 6:31 pm

I got him as well.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1579  Postby John Platko » May 16, 2015 7:00 pm

Fallible wrote:I got him as well.


We might be able to sort this all out with:

I like to imagine ...
User avatar
John Platko
 
Name: John Platko
Posts: 9411
Male

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Reincarnation Myth or Possible?

#1580  Postby BlackBart » May 16, 2015 7:16 pm

Fallible wrote:I got him as well.


I bet he was a laugh riot with us two driving him. :shock:
You don't crucify people! Not on Good Friday! - Harold Shand
User avatar
BlackBart
 
Name: rotten bart
Posts: 12235
Age: 58
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Other Religions & Belief Systems

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest