http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

I heard this and dismissed it as an urban legend but apparently it's true. Even the RCC has agreed that words like "booty" have to be changed to "Spoils" to suit modern language usage.

I came across this website this morning: Apparently Americans have a problem with genocidal killers taken "booty." What is more disturbing is the fear-mongering below:

EDITOR'S COMMENT: There is a plan to remove all Christian web sites from the internet. This web site will soon be shut down by the anti-Christ forces. Be sure to order the items list near the bottom of this web page. Also, you can print out all PDF files for the Directives from Heaven and all of the Bayside Prophecies. Copy Our Lady's messages now! Soon they will not be available. Be sure to have in your possession the Bayside books, Bayside Medals, Douay-Rheims Bibles and the Items Recommended by Our Lady. Purchase these items now while they are still available!

Or maybe it's using the believer's learned fear as a marketing ploy. How ignorant do you have to be to believe that it is possible for whoever it is they think controls "the Internet" to remove all their proseletysing. If that were possible surely the proseletysers themselves could go after porn websites?

No doubt it's the horrible 'new atheists" who are going after them. Such paranoia!!

"... the Items recommended by Our Lady."

W.T.F.

Catholic fundamentalism, strange.

Very strange. I had to comment about it because of the way that it's the infallible "Word of God" yet people keep rewriting it and changing the meanings of words to suit the fashion of the time, or just in case some idiot says the Hebrews were collecting "asses" (which they were of course, but the church can't say that). More PC nonsense. And the "young woman" thing, well that just blows the idea of a "virgin" giving birth out of the water then doesn't it?

Agrippina wrote:Very strange. I had to comment about it because of the way that it's the infallible "Word of God" yet people keep rewriting it and changing the meanings of words to suit the fashion of the time, or just in case some idiot says the Hebrews were collecting "asses" (which they were of course, but the church can't say that). More PC nonsense. And the "young woman" thing, well that just blows the idea of a "virgin" giving birth out of the water then doesn't it?

well... you are aware that languages change?

Just heard a wonderful joke - let's put the fun back in fundamentalism!

Zwaarddijk wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Very strange. I had to comment about it because of the way that it's the infallible "Word of God" yet people keep rewriting it and changing the meanings of words to suit the fashion of the time, or just in case some idiot says the Hebrews were collecting "asses" (which they were of course, but the church can't say that). More PC nonsense. And the "young woman" thing, well that just blows the idea of a "virgin" giving birth out of the water then doesn't it?

well... you are aware that languages change?

Of course. That's not my problem. There's a big difference between a "young woman" and a "virgin." Not all virgins are young women and not all young women are virgins.

The Bible being considered "too liberal" made me think of this from The Vicar of Dibley

David Horton: What was that socialist trout you were spouting from the pulpit last week?
Vicar: I've got a feeling it was the Sermon on the Mount.
David Horton: Jesus did not tell rich people to give all their money away.
Vicar: I think you'll find he did actually!
David Horton: Nonsense. What did he say to the sick man? "Take up thy bed and walk." In other words "Help yourself". "On your bike."
Vicar: Are you trying to establish a direct spiritual link between Jesus Christ and Norman Tebbit?
David Horton: You can't deny there are similarities.
Vicar:(Loudly) There bloody are not!

Happy Birthday Paul!

Thanks Agrippina!

Agrippina wrote:

Zwaarddijk wrote:

Agrippina wrote:Very strange. I had to comment about it because of the way that it's the infallible "Word of God" yet people keep rewriting it and changing the meanings of words to suit the fashion of the time, or just in case some idiot says the Hebrews were collecting "asses" (which they were of course, but the church can't say that). More PC nonsense. And the "young woman" thing, well that just blows the idea of a "virgin" giving birth out of the water then doesn't it?

well... you are aware that languages change?

Of course. That's not my problem. There's a big difference between a "young woman" and a "virgin." Not all virgins are young women and not all young women are virgins.

well, that particular bit I completely agree with you on. however, the idea of retranslating a book because the language it's translated to has changed shouldn't be remarkable to anyone! (whereas the original language is amenable to some kind of scholarly analysis, despite the fact that Hebrew too has changed since the Bible was written).

The last major rewrite I heard of was the Bowdlerized version...

I agree. I don't have a problem with any language changing. But the language, i.e. English, hasn't changed, the word "booty" still means the same as "spoils" just as "dumb" still means "unable to speak" but because new meanings are added, this sort of nonsensical waste of time and money has to be performed. Imagine if we started rewriting the work of Shakespeare to avoid using words he used that make sense to people who speak English, for instance:

PETRUCHIO
Why, there's a wench! Come on, and kiss me, Kate.

How long before the PC-brigade decide to rewrite Shakespeare so that the non-pc word "wench" doesn't offend someone because it is now considered to be an insult.

I'm not whining about wanting people to speak in "Old English" or because I want the Bible to be kept in the original very first English translation, I just see the exercise as a waste of money and time on something that has no value to the further progress of humanity. I don't know if this makes sense, it does to me. I would be thrilled if the Bible was rewritten with and introduction that says "the following is the mythology of the ancient Jewish people, it has no bearing on the reality of being human."

Agrippina wrote:I agree. I don't have a problem with any language changing. But the language, i.e. English, hasn't changed, the word "booty" still means the same as "spoils" just as "dumb" still means "unable to speak" but because new meanings are added, this sort of nonsensical waste of time and money has to be performed.

But English has changed! The first things to come to mind when hearing those words are far from what they were even decades ago, the main meaning of dumb these days is stupid, and mute is like far away in the tail of possible meanings, and soon a large segment of people that speak English natively might not even know that dumb originally meant mute.

furthermore, we know have more knowledge of linguistics than ever, we know more about Biblical Hebrew and Ancient Greek than anyone probably knew *back when they were spoken* ...

Imagine if we started rewriting the work of Shakespeare to avoid using words he used that make sense to people who speak English, for instance:

PETRUCHIO
Why, there's a wench! Come on, and kiss me, Kate.

How long before the PC-brigade decide to rewrite Shakespeare so that the non-pc word "wench" doesn't offend someone because it is now considered to be an insult.

what fucking PC-brigade are you talking of? There's actually a few rather sensible points in avoiding words like 'ass' and the like

I'm not whining about wanting people to speak in "Old English" or because I want the Bible to be kept in the original very first English translation, I just see the exercise as a waste of money and time on something that has no value to the further progress of humanity. I don't know if this makes sense, it does to me. I would be thrilled if the Bible was rewritten with and introduction that says "the following is the mythology of the ancient Jewish people, it has no bearing on the reality of being human."

If you haven't found such translations, it's because you haven't been looking. And you then go on and try to justify this by spouting off uninformed half-formed ideas about linguistics . How's translating the bible again any more of an objectionable exercise than, say, the entire World of Warcraft thingy, or commercial television?

EDIT: a further thing, most translations this far have been informed more by theology than by scholarly and linguistic concerns - a more scholarly translation is always a good thing, and it does seem as though the catholic translations are taking steps in that direction, as are some protestant ones - however, this only infuriates those who prefer translations were preconceived theology informs the translation. A good example where such theology-informed translation is concerned is elaborated on at length by E.P. Sanders in his works on Paul.

Agrippina wrote:I came across this website this morning: Apparently Americans have a problem with genocidal killers taken "booty." What is more disturbing is the fear-mongering below:

EDITOR'S COMMENT: There is a plan to remove all Christian web sites from the internet. This web site will soon be shut down by the anti-Christ forces. Be sure to order the items list near the bottom of this web page. Also, you can print out all PDF files for the Directives from Heaven and all of the Bayside Prophecies. Copy Our Lady's messages now! Soon they will not be available. Be sure to have in your possession the Bayside books, Bayside Medals, Douay-Rheims Bibles and the Items Recommended by Our Lady. Purchase these items now while they are still available!

Or maybe it's using the believer's learned fear as a marketing ploy. How ignorant do you have to be to believe that it is possible for whoever it is they think controls "the Internet" to remove all their proseletysing. If that were possible surely the proseletysers themselves could go after porn websites?

No doubt it's the horrible 'new atheists" who are going after them. Such paranoia!!

It seems to be a variant on the old theme of "buy now - this is only a limited time offer! If you don't order our product by tomorrow, you could miss out!". It's just the usual pressure marketing to get people to buy their stuff.

Arcanyn wrote:

Or maybe it's using the believer's learned fear as a marketing ploy. How ignorant do you have to be to believe that it is possible for whoever it is they think controls "the Internet" to remove all their proseletysing. If that were possible surely the proseletysers themselves could go after porn websites?

No doubt it's the horrible 'new atheists" who are going after them. Such paranoia!!

It seems to be a variant on the old theme of "buy now - this is only a limited time offer! If you don't order our product by tomorrow, you could miss out!". It's just the usual pressure marketing to get people to buy their stuff.

they seem to believe the catholic church itself's been infiltrated by satan or something - if you read further, they claim all bibles printed after 1965 are tainted with corruption.

unless they've stockpiled a huge lot of pre-1965 bibles (not that hard to do), I have a hard time seeing them trying to pull this as some kind of marketing thingy - seems more like they actually believe their own delusions rather than try cashing in on them.

Zwaarddijk wrote:

Agrippina wrote:I agree. I don't have a problem with any language changing. But the language, i.e. English, hasn't changed, the word "booty" still means the same as "spoils" just as "dumb" still means "unable to speak" but because new meanings are added, this sort of nonsensical waste of time and money has to be performed.

But English has changed! The first things to come to mind when hearing those words are far from what they were even decades ago, the main meaning of dumb these days is stupid, and mute is like far away in the tail of possible meanings, and soon a large segment of people that speak English natively might not even know that dumb originally meant mute.

I really don't want to argue with you. I have more than enough to cope with arguing with idiots. I don't need to argue with intelligent people as well.

Of course English has changed, that's not what I'm saying.

furthermore, we know have more knowledge of linguistics than ever, we know more about Biblical Hebrew and Ancient Greek than anyone probably knew *back when they were spoken* ...

Imagine if we started rewriting the work of Shakespeare to avoid using words he used that make sense to people who speak English, for instance:

PETRUCHIO
Why, there's a wench! Come on, and kiss me, Kate.

How long before the PC-brigade decide to rewrite Shakespeare so that the non-pc word "wench" doesn't offend someone because it is now considered to be an insult.

what fucking PC-brigade are you talking of? There's actually a few rather sensible points in avoiding words like 'ass' and the like

And there you go screaming at me about nonsense. Whatever. Forget about it.

I'm not whining about wanting people to speak in "Old English" or because I want the Bible to be kept in the original very first English translation, I just see the exercise as a waste of money and time on something that has no value to the further progress of humanity. I don't know if this makes sense, it does to me. I would be thrilled if the Bible was rewritten with and introduction that says "the following is the mythology of the ancient Jewish people, it has no bearing on the reality of being human."

If you haven't found such translations, it's because you haven't been looking. And you then go on and try to justify this by spouting off uninformed half-formed ideas about linguistics . How's translating the bible again any more of an objectionable exercise than, say, the entire World of Warcraft thingy, or commercial television?

Sigh. My problem with the whole Bible translation thing is that I want it to be relegated to the archives of ancient texts.

Every time we rewrite it in modern language we give it to more people who we want to convert. Left alone in ancient language, as the language evolves away from ancient language, it will lose it's attractiveness. Jesus Christ don't you get that???

EDIT: a further thing, most translations this far have been informed more by theology than by scholarly and linguistic concerns - a more scholarly translation is always a good thing, and it does seem as though the catholic translations are taking steps in that direction, as are some protestant ones - however, this only infuriates those who prefer translations were preconceived theology informs the translation. A good example where such theology-informed translation is concerned is elaborated on at length by E.P. Sanders in his works on Paul.

Which is exactly the thing I would like to see. Theology and the Bible all relegated to boring, tedious, untrendy (if there is such a word) nonsense.

I know that Shakespeare has been translated into simple language. But when one studies it as a formal academic study, it has to be read in the original language which is why modern youngsters hate having it forced on them. Forget what I said about "wench" that was a stupid example. Maybe translating Shakespeare regularly would be far more beneficial than translating the stupid book of mythology and fantasy.

Now I'm not going to fight with you anymore. I'm in a good mood, it's the weekend, I want to enjoy it not fight with people I recognise as intelligent. So go be a good chap and pick a fight with someone else.

Zwaarddijk wrote:

Arcanyn wrote:

Or maybe it's using the believer's learned fear as a marketing ploy. How ignorant do you have to be to believe that it is possible for whoever it is they think controls "the Internet" to remove all their proseletysing. If that were possible surely the proseletysers themselves could go after porn websites?

No doubt it's the horrible 'new atheists" who are going after them. Such paranoia!!

It seems to be a variant on the old theme of "buy now - this is only a limited time offer! If you don't order our product by tomorrow, you could miss out!". It's just the usual pressure marketing to get people to buy their stuff.

they seem to believe the catholic church itself's been infiltrated by satan or something - if you read further, they claim all bibles printed after 1965 are tainted with corruption.

unless they've stockpiled a huge lot of pre-1965 bibles (not that hard to do), I have a hard time seeing them trying to pull this as some kind of marketing thingy - seems more like they actually believe their own delusions rather than try cashing in on them.

That's what I thought when I saw the marketing nonsense at the bottom of the page. It's using the stupidity of the already ignorant to get them to become less knowledgeable by selling them rubbish literature or whatever. The stupidity of humans shouldn't astound me but it still does. Maybe I should take off my rose tinted glasses and see the way it really it, most people are "dumb."