What is it?
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Even unremitting pain can be had without the accompanying suffering (that's the theory).
Eightfold Noble Path which if followed is said to bring about an end of suffering.
Yes absolutely. I avoided the word "grasping" because I don't like it, and prefer striving or competing as not having such negative connotations. I'm curious about Plato and would appreciate elaboration.Mick wrote:Just a note: suffering should have a broader application here. It should include existential suffering; that is, it should include stuff like excessive worrying, angst, and stuff of that sort. Any kind of grasping to that which fleets and is impermanent (which happens to be everything) leads to suffering. The goal then, for Buddhism, is to stop grasping.
This philosophy is in sharp contrast to Plato's.
This gets touchy; there is a distinction between experiencing something and allowing it to cause you to suffer. The common-sense approach to something that causes you to suffer is to stop doing it or to find a remedy, but if this is not possible it is still possible to not suffer by ignoring the negativity of the experience. I don't know how realistic that is. I have tried it during times of grief and of serious pain and I guess it helped a little and if I had been a more practiced Buddhist it might have helped more.hackenslash wrote:More about 4 please. What is it, in your understanding, and how does it bring about an end of suffering?
The Eightfold Noble Path is a program of meditation, study and right behavior. The idea is that in this life we are happier and have less difficulty getting on, and in the next life the karma we accumulate allows us a better birth situation. I don't know about that -- let's say I'm agnostic with a strong proclivity toward thinking this is what happens. This is not avoiding death -- we die, end of us. What is reborn is a new person with some of us in it.tuco wrote:Even unremitting pain can be had without the accompanying suffering (that's the theory).
Sounds good.Eightfold Noble Path which if followed is said to bring about an end of suffering.
This works how?
Frank Merton wrote:The Eightfold Noble Path is a program of meditation, study and right behavior. The idea is that in this life we are happier and have less difficulty getting on, and in the next life the karma we accumulate allows us a better birth situation. I don't know about that -- let's say I'm agnostic with a strong proclivity toward thinking this is what happens. This is not avoiding death -- we die, end of us. What is reborn is a new person with some of us in it.tuco wrote:Even unremitting pain can be had without the accompanying suffering (that's the theory).
Sounds good.Eightfold Noble Path which if followed is said to bring about an end of suffering.
This works how?
Of course the Buddha achieved what is called "Enlightenment," and his immediate followers did likewise. In theory anyone can (and in the stories many do). If you are Enlightened then you can enter Nirvana -- a state of timeless bliss (not really non-existence because you are in bliss but nothing otherwise happens). This is derived from Indian religions in general and I personally don't think it is true.
That would do the trick.tuco wrote:
So at the end everyone would be in Nirvana thus not suffering? Because that could be done tomorrow.
Frank Merton wrote:
Enlightenment as something to seek is too abstract for me. I'm more willing to follow most of the path for the more immediate benefits of happiness and peace and having a good intellectual structure for ethical principles.
Frank Merton wrote:Okay I will try to provide a little summary of what it is about and then try to respond to questions and remarks. I am not here to "convert" anyone and don't expect to as I'm not that devout myself.
I will start with a rewording in my own sense of what is called the "Four Noble Truths."
1. We suffer. Suffering is of course not the only thing we do, but we do do a lot of it if you include all the little aches and pains and itches and inabilities to sleep and irritating relatives and so on.
Frank Merton wrote:2. If we pay attention we can figure out why we suffer, first in individual cases and eventually in general.
3. Once we have done that it is possible to stop suffering. Even unremitting pain can be had without the accompanying suffering (that's the theory).
Frank Merton wrote:4. One way is the path known as the Eightfold Noble Path which if followed is said to bring about an end of suffering.
Spearthrower wrote:It seems such a strange concept to me; end suffering. Suffering is part of life. We grow from it, we learn from it, we adapt and achieve new things at least partly in our pursuit of alleviating suffering.
Frank Merton wrote:Okay I will try to provide a little summary of what it is about and then try to respond to questions and remarks. I am not here to "convert" anyone and don't expect to as I'm not that devout myself.
I will start with a rewording in my own sense of what is called the "Four Noble Truths."
1. We suffer. Suffering is of course not the only thing we do, but we do do a lot of it if you include all the little aches and pains and itches and inabilities to sleep and irritating relatives and so on.
2. If we pay attention we can figure out why we suffer, first in individual cases and eventually in general.
3. Once we have done that it is possible to stop suffering. Even unremitting pain can be had without the accompanying suffering (that's the theory).
4. One way is the path known as the Eightfold Noble Path which if followed is said to bring about an end of suffering.
Spearthrower wrote:It seems such a strange concept to me; end suffering. Suffering is part of life. We grow from it, we learn from it, we adapt and achieve new things at least partly in our pursuit of alleviating suffering.
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