andrewk wrote:Can somebody please explain what ... a tunty-climp is?

THWOTH wrote:

andrewk wrote:Can somebody please explain what ... a tunty-climp is?

Only a sknute would ask that!

DanDare wrote:The difficulty seems to be that they don't quite get how scepticism and logic work and feel that our challenges from within those frameworks are belligerent and close minded (where have I seen that before?). I think there are useful links to be had with these guys and interesting conversations to be engaged in but I don't know how to find common ground with them without deferring to the things I consider ill founded or illogical.

andrewk wrote:The criticism I would make of atheists is that they use WAY too many obscure abbreviations, in-jargon and sets of initials.

Can somebody please explain what the PD forum and UD forum are and what a tunty-climp is?

And welcome, gainesvillecathy. I'll look forward to hearing your views, as we don't get many deists in these parts.

DanDare wrote:You will love this bit just in from the thread:

iDeismFounder wrote: Here are my takeaways for atheism and atheists as represented by the majority of this community:

- Atheists are unwilling to commit to even the most widely accepted scientific theories if it might undermine the atheist’s materialist doctrine, which despite your forthcoming denial is real. Atheists caveat and hedge. Atheists want to keep all options open so they can never be wrong. The honest ones simply say “I don’t know.” It is not credible to make declarative statements against another’s ideas or hypotheses from a position of “I don’t know” or some nebulous “maybe or maybe not” viewpoint, particularly with the vitriol that characterizes this community. There is clearly no humility among atheists as they simply believe their conclusions are superior without realizing they are so only to themselves.

- Atheists love to play games with semantics in an attempt to discredit others, even when they know full well what is intended. This is a tactic to avoid, finally admitting the point above: “they don’t know” and have no higher intellectual authority on which to base their own opinions or on which to ridicule others.

- Atheists are extremely rude and immature, refusing to acknowledge this point even when indisputable evidence stis in front of their faces. They appear to be simply incapable of respectful dialogue. For some reason, atheists feel they are empowered to dictate the terms of any conversation.

- Atheists tend to be shallow thinkers. They know a lot of basic scientific buzzwords and simply stop there. I have seen no evidence of the atheist’s ability to discuss life’s deeper questions or the philosophical implications of scientific observations. Moreover, atheist try but fail to use science to disprove God when science does not, by definition, deal with God.

- Atheists have anointed themselves the keepers of reason. Atheists hold as doctrine that God does not exist. They attempt to water it down with phrases like there is “no evidence” or “I am not denying God could exist” when in actuality they passionately believe God does not exist. Regardless of the credentials of the speaker, they attack as soon as the possibility of intelligent agency is mentioned. Though the atheist will deny it, they are fundamentalist believers in the absence of anything (intelligent or otherwise) beyond the physical world they see.

Now have fun reinforcing your own ideas and self worth...they won't change my conclusions about you.

DanDare wrote:You will love this bit just in from the thread:

iDeismFounder wrote: Here are my takeaways for atheism and atheists as represented by the majority of this community:

- Atheists are unwilling to commit to even the most widely accepted scientific theories if it might undermine the atheist’s materialist doctrine, which despite your forthcoming denial is real. Atheists caveat and hedge. Atheists want to keep all options open so they can never be wrong. The honest ones simply say “I don’t know.” It is not credible to make declarative statements against another’s ideas or hypotheses from a position of “I don’t know” or some nebulous “maybe or maybe not” viewpoint, particularly with the vitriol that characterizes this community. There is clearly no humility among atheists as they simply believe their conclusions are superior without realizing they are so only to themselves.

- Atheists love to play games with semantics in an attempt to discredit others, even when they know full well what is intended. This is a tactic to avoid, finally admitting the point above: “they don’t know” and have no higher intellectual authority on which to base their own opinions or on which to ridicule others.

- Atheists are extremely rude and immature, refusing to acknowledge this point even when indisputable evidence stis in front of their faces. They appear to be simply incapable of respectful dialogue. For some reason, atheists feel they are empowered to dictate the terms of any conversation.

- Atheists tend to be shallow thinkers. They know a lot of basic scientific buzzwords and simply stop there. I have seen no evidence of the atheist’s ability to discuss life’s deeper questions or the philosophical implications of scientific observations. Moreover, atheist try but fail to use science to disprove God when science does not, by definition, deal with God.

- Atheists have anointed themselves the keepers of reason. Atheists hold as doctrine that God does not exist. They attempt to water it down with phrases like there is “no evidence” or “I am not denying God could exist” when in actuality they passionately believe God does not exist. Regardless of the credentials of the speaker, they attack as soon as the possibility of intelligent agency is mentioned. Though the atheist will deny it, they are fundamentalist believers in the absence of anything (intelligent or otherwise) beyond the physical world they see.

Now have fun reinforcing your own ideas and self worth...they won't change my conclusions about you.

DanDare wrote:You will love this bit just in from the thread:

iDeismFounder wrote: Here are my takeaways for atheism and atheists as represented by the majority of this community:

- Atheists are unwilling to commit to even the most widely accepted scientific theories if it might undermine the atheist’s materialist doctrine, which despite your forthcoming denial is real. Atheists caveat and hedge. Atheists want to keep all options open so they can never be wrong. The honest ones simply say “I don’t know.” It is not credible to make declarative statements against another’s ideas or hypotheses from a position of “I don’t know” or some nebulous “maybe or maybe not” viewpoint, particularly with the vitriol that characterizes this community. There is clearly no humility among atheists as they simply believe their conclusions are superior without realizing they are so only to themselves.

- Atheists love to play games with semantics in an attempt to discredit others, even when they know full well what is intended. This is a tactic to avoid, finally admitting the point above: “they don’t know” and have no higher intellectual authority on which to base their own opinions or on which to ridicule others.

- Atheists are extremely rude and immature, refusing to acknowledge this point even when indisputable evidence stis in front of their faces. They appear to be simply incapable of respectful dialogue. For some reason, atheists feel they are empowered to dictate the terms of any conversation.

- Atheists tend to be shallow thinkers. They know a lot of basic scientific buzzwords and simply stop there. I have seen no evidence of the atheist’s ability to discuss life’s deeper questions or the philosophical implications of scientific observations. Moreover, atheist try but fail to use science to disprove God when science does not, by definition, deal with God.

- Atheists have anointed themselves the keepers of reason. Atheists hold as doctrine that God does not exist. They attempt to water it down with phrases like there is “no evidence” or “I am not denying God could exist” when in actuality they passionately believe God does not exist. Regardless of the credentials of the speaker, they attack as soon as the possibility of intelligent agency is mentioned. Though the atheist will deny it, they are fundamentalist believers in the absence of anything (intelligent or otherwise) beyond the physical world they see.

Now have fun reinforcing your own ideas and self worth...they won't change my conclusions about you.

gainesvillecathy wrote:Good day

At the risk of being totally attacked here (some of you may recognize my name), I just wanted to mention what I think is a very valid point.

When organized religion has had a hold on so many worldwide communities throughout the history of man, I cannot fathom how our entire planet could suddenly see the light to secularism over night. As with everything in our biological and social history, change comes about by going through a process. Each mind is stimulated by what they are exposed to. Standing on the sidelines and holding up your sign of opinion is not going to change the masses who are at so many places on the spectrum of belief or disbelief.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful that you maintain this and other forums to offer those of like minds to express their position on these issues. However, perhaps it is just as valuable to have other forums available to those individuals who are looking for a "lifeboat" to carry them to another frame of mind.

I shopped the terminal of Positve Desim and Unified Deism as a means to learn about others and their views. All I am trying to point out is that some of you here might make more progress (if that is your intent) with others and their journeys toward secular points of view if you are a little less judgmental of where they have been.

I have not been on either the PD or UD forums in many months, and I am no longer welcome there, but I have nothing against them, and I wish them well on their INDIVIDUAL journeys. I really think they will not be successful in their endeavors to gather masses. Deism by nature is only an aspect of many different views. It only means that they do not believe in religions that follow revelations by others or by holy books. Other than that, there are MANY different worldviews and beliefs with that one aspect included. Those MANY different viewpoints are very independent and individualistic. I will be very surprised if they are able to agree on enough points to create a community or a wave of change across the globe. However, I do think they have a place in the journey, a stop in the terminal as such for many people trying to move forward. In a way, they are actually helping the same cause many of you profess, the move away from organized religion.

Thanks for letting stop by and post. I might hang around a bit if I'm not attacked.