what about the hindus?

Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Paganism, Taoism etc.

Moderators: Blip, DarthHelmet86

Re: what about the hindus?

#101  Postby Shiv » Jul 21, 2011 2:57 am

epepke wrote:I'd like to see some evidence of this 5000-year-old greatness that makes Hinduism so swell. Something like a basic understanding of electricity. That shit just comes from the sky, and it isn't as if other religions haven't tried their hand at it.


Do you have a pair of eyes? If you do, then do you wait for some other person to prove their existence to you before you use it?

Study it, if you want to know what makes stuff so swell!
User avatar
Shiv
 
Name: Shivsankar
Posts: 31
Age: 34
Male

Country: India
India (in)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: what about the hindus?

#102  Postby epepke » Jul 21, 2011 4:07 am

Shiv wrote:
epepke wrote:I'd like to see some evidence of this 5000-year-old greatness that makes Hinduism so swell. Something like a basic understanding of electricity. That shit just comes from the sky, and it isn't as if other religions haven't tried their hand at it.


Do you have a pair of eyes? If you do, then do you wait for some other person to prove their existence to you before you use it?

Study it, if you want to know what makes stuff so swell!


So, nothing about electricity, then.

I'm sure you're all glassy-eyed over how great it is, but you're the one making the claim for wonderful special greatness. As it turns out, that's what every adherent tries to do around here.

Christianity isn't a religion; it's a personal relationship with God!
Islam isn't a religion; it's the universal way of relating to God!
Buddhism isn't a religion; it doesn't have God, only rebirth, a bunch of heavens and hells, and a demoness named Maya!

etc. and so forth and so on.
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#103  Postby cavarka9 » Jul 21, 2011 1:08 pm

Shiv wrote:
Once again, you wish to down play the importance of power and religion, werent you the one to bemoan about Islam and Christianity as invaders etc, blame a lot of loss due to these power struggles?.


I'm not here to defend Christianity and Islam. Dont try to divert the discussion by interpreting my own arguments as you wish by including those two political theologies.

Yes, I'm here to defend my own traditions/culture/philosophies and to establish them to be much more better than either Islam or Christianity. That is why I said "not true in an Indian context", because unlike the treatment meted out to atheism as heresy by Christianity and Islam, in India there thrived a very encouraging environment for debate. Which is why you even find those atheistic arguments in records.


I am only trying to show that power in religious peoples hands have consequences. Since you understand only with regard to those faiths, I brought it to your notice. But you are unwilling to see the associations of the same nature in your own religion.
I am only being civil to you, I could however try to show you with a greater force the wickedness present in your own faith, Child marriages, untoucahbility, the state of widows in the society. The wickedness of chopping hands as a form of justice etc.
You wish to compare Hinduism with Christianity and Islam, it wouldnt come out that well as much as you expect, they atleast treated their own people comparatively better. I on the other hand am comparing it with the faiths in its own native place. The fact remains that, had these debates been done in a proper manner by heeding and following others advices, India could have infact been better 1000yrs early. Unfortunately, they did not, they were perhaps heard more at a later time, but by then events turned out other way.Put it simply, Hindus had their opportunity and didnt do well, why moan and groan that things could have been better, when I can claim that they could have been much better had they listened to others words more carefully.

Shiv wrote:
Why, are they not human beings, do they not use their brains?.


Very nicely done :P

While I keep repeating that there was astounding amount of intellectual activity in the formation of concepts, their opposition and defense in India, you are so very clever to ask this question. Aint you?

You are doing the same thing that pseudo-liberal, pseudo-secular, pseudo-intellectual pseudo-scholars and the media do in India. State a valid fact, but as though it was a crime. If you are not one of them, then answer my questions properly (and not in a jumble like above), not twisting my defense as you like. I will start our own debate on caste in the other thread.

[/quote]
The intellectual activity which you talk , includes undoubtedly the vehement criticism of Aryabhatta's inquiry of heliocentric worldview, astoundingly by Brahmagupta(a brilliant mathematician)(source: Argumentative Indian,Amartya Sen). The issue is simple, where did that intellect go?. How could it be that when the invaders (or muslims as you prefer it) came riding in, people didnt stick together?(Intelligence vanished it seems in face of danger or perhaps they were never sure which way of thinking was the right way), They didnt adapt themselves, didnt give up on the disgusting and worthless rituals, didnt still learn to treat their own people fairly. Adapt the methods and procedures which would have benefited your kind better?. But perhaps this is not intelligence according to you, isnt it?.

Hindus could have asked the many schools present,chavarkas,buddhists,jains and others etc. This didnt happen, no because their thoughts had to be opposed, their methods to be rejected and never take the advantage of their brains because they were wrong!. They still had to follow the old vedic ways!. Keep the society divided in to 4 classes, Vijayanagara empire for example within which we find this text still opposing what others say,(not to mention you who is still out to gain the credit and show that the book was meant to show the superiority of your faith, some people never learn it seems no matter how much humiliation and loss they have already suffered for being stubborn to their faith). So no, they didnt change as quickly as they could have and payed the price for it.

But I think for you, intelligence is about arstrology, wondering which planet can win you wars, or how many brahmins to feed to avoid a curse or bad phase,or how many times they must dip in ganga during eclipse, whether it is alright for a brahmin to fight alongside a shudra or not, because these were also the "sciences" of the Hindus. Or perhaps what you mean is to compare the better parts which agree with todays ideas of what science is and not discuss the other parts. So what intellectual activity in formation of concepts are you talking about?. Not using brains when facing danger, not treating people fairly(not even now).

Infact, I could bet that were we to remove all the modern technology away, then muslims and christians would still do better than hindus, because hindus treat their own people so disgustingly that they will come forward to annihilate their own kind for the sake of power or better treatment. We find that even today, what kind of moronic society is this which does not understand equality?, does not understand the need to blur the caste distinctions for making an ideal society?. Even now we have people voting their caste when given the opportunity to cast their vote. Not a fucking clue as to what civilization means.
At best or at worst, there was only one realist called chanakya about 2oooyrs ago and even he had no fucking clue as to what an ideal society has to be like. All his ploys would have led to keep people divide to exploit them and that is the true history of India.
Hindus never seriously considered how a human being ought to be treated, they didnt even ask how hindus ought to be treated. You can point to many reformists of old India like the bhakti etc, but it never made a fucking difference because the Brahmins had always been to close to power than these others, and old laws always stood out against humanity itself. So dont cry faulting what others did when our own ancestors knew others ideas and rejected them to be stubborn to owns religion.
Every moment is a choice.Choices you make now determine your destiny.free yourself of old choices made. Success is a journey,not a destination.
User avatar
cavarka9
 
Name: prajna
Posts: 3256

Country: 21.0000° N, 78.0000° E
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#104  Postby Shiv » Jul 22, 2011 1:22 am

Kindly do not foist your own image of how India was on the actual past of India, since it very clearly appears that you have consumed the loads that have been doled out by the Marxist historians and the media, which is evident from your Brahmin bashing. I'm not a brahmin, but I am better aware of the reality - they make up such a miniscule part of the society that if all you said was true, the others would have decimated them ages ago. That seems to have not happened, why?

That said, India in the past did not have a rosy picture of an idealized society either. But it was definitely not as worse as you paint. And you are also attributing practices that cropped up later on after the invasions to the society before the invasions.

I am not here to waste my time by defending stuff. I am here to understand what atheism is - especially in a western perspective. I will put my experiences to use whenever I get the opportunity.

If you are ready to shed a narrow-minded, negative view of the pseudo-secular variety, we can have a discussion on what was and why. Else, it was nice talking to you. Good bye! :)
User avatar
Shiv
 
Name: Shivsankar
Posts: 31
Age: 34
Male

Country: India
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#105  Postby Shiv » Jul 22, 2011 1:26 am

epepke wrote:
Shiv wrote:
epepke wrote:I'd like to see some evidence of this 5000-year-old greatness that makes Hinduism so swell. Something like a basic understanding of electricity. That shit just comes from the sky, and it isn't as if other religions haven't tried their hand at it.


Do you have a pair of eyes? If you do, then do you wait for some other person to prove their existence to you before you use it?

Study it, if you want to know what makes stuff so swell!


So, nothing about electricity, then.

I'm sure you're all glassy-eyed over how great it is, but you're the one making the claim for wonderful special greatness. As it turns out, that's what every adherent tries to do around here.

Christianity isn't a religion; it's a personal relationship with God!
Islam isn't a religion; it's the universal way of relating to God!
Buddhism isn't a religion; it doesn't have God, only rebirth, a bunch of heavens and hells, and a demoness named Maya!

etc. and so forth and so on.


Dude,

There's no heaven. There's no hell. You just have consciousness and within it, your mind. That is both heaven and hell.

There is no maya.

There is no god. At least no skydaddy. Only you. You know that you exist right? You've got to start from there.


If you want to know what Indian philosophies talk about, do check this link.

http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/ ... _frame.htm

Nope, you wont be condemned to eternal damnation if you dont check the link. There's neither heaven, nor hell, remember :P
User avatar
Shiv
 
Name: Shivsankar
Posts: 31
Age: 34
Male

Country: India
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#106  Postby cavarka9 » Jul 22, 2011 7:01 pm

Shiv wrote:Kindly do not foist your own image of how India was on the actual past of India, since it very clearly appears that you have consumed the loads that have been doled out by the Marxist historians and the media, which is evident from your Brahmin bashing. I'm not a brahmin, but I am better aware of the reality - they make up such a miniscule part of the society that if all you said was true, the others would have decimated them ages ago. That seems to have not happened, why?

That said, India in the past did not have a rosy picture of an idealized society either. But it was definitely not as worse as you paint. And you are also attributing practices that cropped up later on after the invasions to the society before the invasions.

I am not here to waste my time by defending stuff. I am here to understand what atheism is - especially in a western perspective. I will put my experiences to use whenever I get the opportunity.

If you are ready to shed a narrow-minded, negative view of the pseudo-secular variety, we can have a discussion on what was and why. Else, it was nice talking to you. Good bye! :)

I havent consumed from marxists alone, I dont like marxists, I dont like ideologies. I make up my own mind based on facts and not on the interpretation of facts. Power of words are more dangerous than anything else. As far as brahmins are concerned, it is undoubtedly true that they were the clerics, they were the theologists, they had a greater status in the society and they believed in purity and pollution more than other groups. As far as tiny presence is concerned, there probably were far lesser british in India during their control than the number of brahmins in the whole country. Do not consider impact with population alone. Also, it was told enough times that killing brahmins would bring a curse.That they have to be fed well etc etc.
Put it simply, brahims were the clerics, if it matters, I am willing to use the words as "clerics' or "the cleric group".
India did not have a rosy picture is understated, it was a terrible place for humanity. It is true for most places around the world, but again I am comparing with the buddhists and the jains.
Practices cropping up after invasions?. I am willing to listen, bring forth the evidence. Pseudo-secular! :lol: :lol: . You wouldnt find many people opposed them than me. I am not nicey to Islam or Christianity either. I believe in reason.
As far as defense is concerned, it was once again you who started by finding "the urge to take credit" attitude.
I am willing to be civil and willing to explore what was and what is, I am more than willing to not use hurtful words or speak in a manner as to being willfully provocative.
But the thing is, are you willing to accept evidence which is negative or not?. Thats the question. I am willing to work on that too. Take care :) .
Every moment is a choice.Choices you make now determine your destiny.free yourself of old choices made. Success is a journey,not a destination.
User avatar
cavarka9
 
Name: prajna
Posts: 3256

Country: 21.0000° N, 78.0000° E
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#107  Postby Shiv » Jul 23, 2011 5:30 am

Yes. Let us compare our notes and find out if India was really a
a terrible place for humanity
User avatar
Shiv
 
Name: Shivsankar
Posts: 31
Age: 34
Male

Country: India
India (in)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: what about the hindus?

#108  Postby epepke » Jul 23, 2011 7:37 am

Shiv wrote:Kindly do not foist your own image of how India was on the actual past of India, since it very clearly appears that you have consumed the loads that have been doled out by the Marxist historians and the media,


Oh, goodie. It's a conspiracy of Marxist historians. What about the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commission?
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#109  Postby epepke » Jul 23, 2011 7:39 am

Shiv wrote:
epepke wrote:
Shiv wrote:

Do you have a pair of eyes? If you do, then do you wait for some other person to prove their existence to you before you use it?

Study it, if you want to know what makes stuff so swell!


So, nothing about electricity, then.

I'm sure you're all glassy-eyed over how great it is, but you're the one making the claim for wonderful special greatness. As it turns out, that's what every adherent tries to do around here.

Christianity isn't a religion; it's a personal relationship with God!
Islam isn't a religion; it's the universal way of relating to God!
Buddhism isn't a religion; it doesn't have God, only rebirth, a bunch of heavens and hells, and a demoness named Maya!

etc. and so forth and so on.


Dude,

There's no heaven. There's no hell. You just have consciousness and within it, your mind. That is both heaven and hell.


I don't think I need lectured about reality from someone who doesn't understand the difference between reality and claims of it.
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#110  Postby Shiv » Jul 23, 2011 8:54 am

epepke wrote:
I don't think I need lectured about reality from someone who doesn't understand the difference between reality and claims of it.


:what:

Someone says:

"there is a heaven and a hell and one day you'll be put in to one because you didnt believe in my skydaddy"

You kick their butts saying there's no proof of either heaven or hell and a skydaddy.

I too say "there's no heaven, no hell and definitely no skydaddy", which is what you just said before.

You abuse me too. Huh? Weird

Is it because you've got a clinical necessity to shout down someone or do you get off by establishing your nonexistent reasoning and logical abilities? Oh yeah, you just said that I dont understand stuff and I've stopped understanding them anymore. Because whatever you say happens. Right? :shock:
User avatar
Shiv
 
Name: Shivsankar
Posts: 31
Age: 34
Male

Country: India
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#111  Postby rcscwc » Sep 11, 2011 3:27 am

Why do westren people despise HK? Primarily because they are Hindus.
rcscwc
 
Name: RC Sharma
Posts: 22

Country: India
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#112  Postby GenesForLife » Sep 11, 2011 7:35 am

rcscwc wrote:Why do westren people despise HK? Primarily because they are Hindus.


Citation required.
GenesForLife
 
Posts: 2920
Age: 31
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#113  Postby cavarka9 » Sep 11, 2011 7:36 am

GenesForLife wrote:
rcscwc wrote:Why do westren people despise HK? Primarily because they are Hindus.


Citation required.


what is HK?
Every moment is a choice.Choices you make now determine your destiny.free yourself of old choices made. Success is a journey,not a destination.
User avatar
cavarka9
 
Name: prajna
Posts: 3256

Country: 21.0000° N, 78.0000° E
India (in)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#114  Postby GenesForLife » Sep 11, 2011 7:39 am

I'm guessing Hare Krishna.
GenesForLife
 
Posts: 2920
Age: 31
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#115  Postby cavarka9 » Sep 14, 2011 11:57 am

GenesForLife wrote:I'm guessing Hare Krishna.

shame on you genesforlife, you scared the guy away, now whom are we going to educate and practice on?. Bring someone over,that is the only real compensation
Every moment is a choice.Choices you make now determine your destiny.free yourself of old choices made. Success is a journey,not a destination.
User avatar
cavarka9
 
Name: prajna
Posts: 3256

Country: 21.0000° N, 78.0000° E
India (in)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: what about the hindus?

#116  Postby Paul G » Oct 06, 2011 10:57 am

rcscwc wrote:Why do westren people despise HK? Primarily because they are Hindus.


That's rubbish. Seriously.
User avatar
Paul G
 
Name: Beef Joint
Posts: 9836
Age: 37
Male

England (eng)
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#117  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 15, 2011 6:37 am

rcscwc wrote:Why do westren people despise HK? Primarily because they are Hindus.



If you mean Hare Krishnas, it's probably for the same reason they dislike (I think your choice of word was hyperbole) Hare Krishnas for the same reason they dislike Jehovah's Witnesses, and other proselytising evangelical zealots... because all of them shove their religion down your throat. Religion should be a personal thing, but if you choose to parade it down the street making as much noise and showing off as much as possible, then you choose to make yourself a fair target of criticism - right?
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#118  Postby amateur » Nov 18, 2011 1:39 am

I recently heard something about Harekrishnas that made me squirm as an Indian living in USA. Apparently, many people who donate to Iskcon temple have a kind of deal which goes something like this... they donate around 1000-1500$ per year (not exactly sure about the amount) and in return get free dinner for the entire family on a daily basis for the whole year. The catch is, they will claim tax exempt on the amount donated.

If this is true, I'm ashamed by the corruptness of my fellow Indians. However, I'm not 100% sure about this as my info is secondhand, but I can say it is more than probable. I heard that this is carried out by a close network of people who are directly or indirectly involved in running the temple and whose residency is situated near it. This also might explain the mushrooming of mini temples (basically homes turned into worship places) started by mostly ordinary folks who don't have any financial background except their salaries.

I know financial fraud is one of the major factors behind organized religions, but always assumed that is limited to godmen/priests perpetuating the ignorance. This is altogether different where the supposed dumb followers are also exploiting the system.

I seriously don't understand why religious organizations should be tax exempt.
amateur
 
Posts: 217
Age: 38
Male

Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#119  Postby Spearthrower » Nov 18, 2011 2:33 pm

That's actually very similar to the beginnings of Buddhism too.
I'm not an atheist; I just don't believe in gods :- that which I don't belong to isn't a group!
Religion: Mass Stockholm Syndrome

Learn Stuff. Stuff good. https://www.coursera.org/
User avatar
Spearthrower
 
Posts: 27415
Age: 44
Male

Country: Thailand
Print view this post

Re: what about the hindus?

#120  Postby rcscwc » Jan 03, 2012 6:49 am

epepke wrote:
Shiv wrote:
epepke wrote:I'd like to see some evidence of this 5000-year-old greatness that makes Hinduism so swell. Something like a basic understanding of electricity. That shit just comes from the sky, and it isn't as if other religions haven't tried their hand at it.


Do you have a pair of eyes? If you do, then do you wait for some other person to prove their existence to you before you use it?

Study it, if you want to know what makes stuff so swell!


So, nothing about electricity, then.

I'm sure you're all glassy-eyed over how great it is, but you're the one making the claim for wonderful special greatness. As it turns out, that's what every adherent tries to do around here.

Christianity isn't a religion; it's a personal relationship with God!
Islam isn't a religion; it's the universal way of relating to God!


etc. and so forth and so on.

Let us see some evidence of these claims.
rcscwc
 
Name: RC Sharma
Posts: 22

Country: India
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Other Religions & Belief Systems

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest