An idea for preachers

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An idea for preachers

#1  Postby Orthos » Jul 04, 2010 11:07 pm

I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

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Re: An idea for preachers

#2  Postby chairman bill » Jul 04, 2010 11:18 pm

I've got a better idea - religion should not be grounds for being considered a charity, and preaching by workers for an organisation claiming charitable status should be a breach of that charitable status. If they are caught preaching, fine them & remove any tax breaks the organisation gets.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#3  Postby Orthos » Jul 04, 2010 11:26 pm

chairman bill wrote:I've got a better idea - religion should not be grounds for being considered a charity, and preaching by workers for an organisation claiming charitable status should be a breach of that charitable status. If they are caught preaching, fine them & remove any tax breaks the organisation gets.


I disagree. My idea is much more beneficial. This, for example is the amount of followers for evangelical religion. 132,751 preachers.

£20, every month for all these, in one year would equal £31860240, added to money available for public spending. This would be a huge benefit to the economy in the UK. By the next election: £159301200. Britain would be free of financial crisis within no time.

I'm afraid your alternative approach is useless.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#4  Postby Ubjon » Jul 04, 2010 11:35 pm

Orthos wrote:I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

Give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar and what belongs to God to God.



1) How much would it costs to impliment and enforce and with this is mind would it generate any profit?
2) Would there be a review of what the individual is preaching before a permit is issued and what measures would be in place to monitor what this person is preaching whilst holding the permit?
3) How can you ensure that those that are preaching without a permit are reported?

Thats just a few issues. It seems to be an unworkable idea
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Re: An idea for preachers

#5  Postby Orthos » Jul 04, 2010 11:49 pm

Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

Give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar and what belongs to God to God.



1) How much would it costs to impliment and enforce and with this is mind would it generate any profit?
2) Would there be a review of what the individual is preaching before a permit is issued and what measures would be in place to monitor what this person is preaching whilst holding the permit?
3) How can you ensure that those that are preaching without a permit are reported?

Thats just a few issues. It seems to be an unworkable idea


This could be enforced if each permit's information (An id number, the holder, renewal dates e.t.c) were kept on a database. In this way it could be easily monitored if a permit had expired and who it was that had expired. Once the facilities were in place there would probably be little cost to run them.
Obviously, like any public offence, it would be impossible to ensure every incident was reported (similar to speeding). Preaching offences would be reported the same way other offences are reported like littering, trespassing, antisocial behavior, smoking in public places e.t.c.
The religious charities themselves would be reviewed to make sure they were keeping to the law.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#6  Postby Orthos » Jul 04, 2010 11:51 pm

Another benefit to this idea would be if an age requirement was introduced for a permit, say: 18. We would not have parents dragging their children around on their evangelical work.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#7  Postby Animavore » Jul 04, 2010 11:54 pm

I don't think it's as good as my load them into a rocket and shoot them into the sun idea.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#8  Postby Orthos » Jul 05, 2010 12:04 am

Animavore wrote:I don't think it's as good as my load them into a rocket and shoot them into the sun idea.


What economical benefit would that have?
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Re: An idea for preachers

#9  Postby Animavore » Jul 05, 2010 12:06 am

Orthos wrote:
Animavore wrote:I don't think it's as good as my load them into a rocket and shoot them into the sun idea.


What economical benefit would that have?


No more preachers telling poor black kids they're sinners if they use condoms. Africans women have less mouths to feed. They can start looking at educating themselves. Etc.. etc...
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Re: An idea for preachers

#10  Postby Ubjon » Jul 05, 2010 12:09 am

Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

Give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar and what belongs to God to God.



1) How much would it costs to impliment and enforce and with this is mind would it generate any profit?
2) Would there be a review of what the individual is preaching before a permit is issued and what measures would be in place to monitor what this person is preaching whilst holding the permit?
3) How can you ensure that those that are preaching without a permit are reported?

Thats just a few issues. It seems to be an unworkable idea


This could be enforced if each permit's information (An id number, the holder, renewal dates e.t.c) were kept on a database. In this way it could be easily monitored if a permit had expired and who it was that had expired. Once the facilities were in place there would probably be little cost to run them.
Obviously, like any public offence, it would be impossible to ensure every incident was reported (similar to speeding). Preaching offences would be reported the same way other offences are reported like littering, trespassing, antisocial behavior, smoking in public places e.t.c.
The religious charities themselves would be reviewed to make sure they were keeping to the law.


It would have been better if you're addressed the points more clearly

1) I think you've underestimated the costs and effort involved in setting up a new system like this. You need to pay for offices, equipment, software licences, software development, staff, training and laws have to be written and ammended (This list isn't exhaustive). Whenever something new is rolled out there is usually a period of chaos as the staff don't really know what they are doing and they have an enormous worklike from all the claims being made.

You also need to consider that the government won't invest in HMRC in order to collect the billions of unpaid tax. What chance is there that they'll invest in this? The British government is cutting spending anywhere it can and even places where it can't. It won't invest in this.

2) You haven't answered this questions properly. How will you ensure that only those suitable to hold a permit get one and retain one?

3) Haven't you noticed the number of people commiting these offence and getting away with it?
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Re: An idea for preachers

#11  Postby Orthos » Jul 05, 2010 12:16 am

Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

Give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar and what belongs to God to God.



1) How much would it costs to impliment and enforce and with this is mind would it generate any profit?
2) Would there be a review of what the individual is preaching before a permit is issued and what measures would be in place to monitor what this person is preaching whilst holding the permit?
3) How can you ensure that those that are preaching without a permit are reported?

Thats just a few issues. It seems to be an unworkable idea


This could be enforced if each permit's information (An id number, the holder, renewal dates e.t.c) were kept on a database. In this way it could be easily monitored if a permit had expired and who it was that had expired. Once the facilities were in place there would probably be little cost to run them.
Obviously, like any public offence, it would be impossible to ensure every incident was reported (similar to speeding). Preaching offences would be reported the same way other offences are reported like littering, trespassing, antisocial behavior, smoking in public places e.t.c.
The religious charities themselves would be reviewed to make sure they were keeping to the law.


It would have been better if you're addressed the points more clearly

1) I think you've underestimated the costs and problems involved in setting up a new system like this. Having seen the problems that arose with the implimentation of Employment & Support Allowance I can assure you that its costly and messy. Even when things are running relatively smoothly there are constant problems arising all the time.

2) You haven't answered this questions properly. How will you ensure that only those suitable to hold a permit get one?

3) Haven't you noticed the number of people commiting these offence and getting away with it?


I understand what you mean on 1)
The answer to 2) is easy. To apply for a permit you would simply fill out some sort of form (which the government would give to the religious groups to give to its members) which would be sent back to the government and would also have to include some proof of age, such as a copy of your birth certificate. The fashion would be similar to applying for EMA.
I'm aware of 3) I'll have to think about that.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#12  Postby Ubjon » Jul 05, 2010 12:22 am

Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:I have an idea which I think governments should use, mainly the British government:

Charities which are registered as religious charities should be under a law which states that the voluntary workers for the charity, that is the people who preach , require a Preaching permit (or license) which allows them to preach. Each individual can freely apply for the right to preach, however, once a month they have to renew their permit by paying, to the government, £20 or more. If this requirement is not met, their permit would be removed and they could face charges.

I think that this idea would be brilliant because the economy would be boosted and therefore preachers would be useful. I think this is a good idea. Who else agrees? Is there anything wrong with it?

Give what belongs to Caesar to Caesar and what belongs to God to God.



1) How much would it costs to impliment and enforce and with this is mind would it generate any profit?
2) Would there be a review of what the individual is preaching before a permit is issued and what measures would be in place to monitor what this person is preaching whilst holding the permit?
3) How can you ensure that those that are preaching without a permit are reported?

Thats just a few issues. It seems to be an unworkable idea


This could be enforced if each permit's information (An id number, the holder, renewal dates e.t.c) were kept on a database. In this way it could be easily monitored if a permit had expired and who it was that had expired. Once the facilities were in place there would probably be little cost to run them.
Obviously, like any public offence, it would be impossible to ensure every incident was reported (similar to speeding). Preaching offences would be reported the same way other offences are reported like littering, trespassing, antisocial behavior, smoking in public places e.t.c.
The religious charities themselves would be reviewed to make sure they were keeping to the law.


It would have been better if you're addressed the points more clearly

1) I think you've underestimated the costs and problems involved in setting up a new system like this. Having seen the problems that arose with the implimentation of Employment & Support Allowance I can assure you that its costly and messy. Even when things are running relatively smoothly there are constant problems arising all the time.

2) You haven't answered this questions properly. How will you ensure that only those suitable to hold a permit get one?

3) Haven't you noticed the number of people commiting these offence and getting away with it?


I understand what you mean on 1)
The answer to 2) is easy. To apply for a permit you would simply fill out some sort of form (which the government would give to the religious groups to give to its members) which would be sent back to the government and would also have to include some proof of age, such as a copy of your birth certificate. The fashion would be similar to applying for EMA.
I'm aware of 3) I'll have to think about that.


I've altered my post since you quoted it but not by much

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#13  Postby Orthos » Jul 05, 2010 12:30 am

Ubjon wrote:

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.


The government would review the religious groups applying to get preaching permits for their preachers, and if their teachings broke the law, then legal action would be taken against the religion.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#14  Postby Lion IRC » Jul 05, 2010 4:33 am

Animavore wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Animavore wrote:I don't think it's as good as my load them into a rocket and shoot them into the sun idea.


What economical benefit would that have?


No more preachers telling poor black kids they're sinners if they use condoms. Africans women have less mouths to feed. They can start looking at educating themselves. Etc.. etc...


Who are you to tell people to wear condoms if they dont want to?
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Re: An idea for preachers

#15  Postby Ubjon » Jul 05, 2010 4:56 pm

Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.


The government would review the religious groups applying to get preaching permits for their preachers, and if their teachings broke the law, then legal action would be taken against the religion.


You're still not answering the question. How difficult it is for an organisation to claim something and then do something completely different under the system you've suggested? You're also leaving it up to the religious organisation to police its own preachers which is daft.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#16  Postby Orthos » Jul 05, 2010 6:46 pm

Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.


The government would review the religious groups applying to get preaching permits for their preachers, and if their teachings broke the law, then legal action would be taken against the religion.


You're still not answering the question. How difficult it is for an organisation to claim something and then do something completely different under the system you've suggested? You're also leaving it up to the religious organisation to police its own preachers which is daft.


I was actually expecting members of the public to report permit-less preachers. I'm sure many people would happily tell tale.
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Re: An idea for preachers

#17  Postby Ubjon » Jul 05, 2010 6:47 pm

Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.


The government would review the religious groups applying to get preaching permits for their preachers, and if their teachings broke the law, then legal action would be taken against the religion.


You're still not answering the question. How difficult it is for an organisation to claim something and then do something completely different under the system you've suggested? You're also leaving it up to the religious organisation to police its own preachers which is daft.


I was actually expecting members of the public to report permit-less preachers. I'm sure many people would happily tell tale.


Only if they don't like what they are hearing
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Re: An idea for preachers

#18  Postby Orthos » Jul 05, 2010 9:42 pm

Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:
Orthos wrote:
Ubjon wrote:

You've still not answered quesiton 2. I want to know how you'll avoid giving a permit to an extemeist Islamic cleric for example or a self-declared moderate Islamic cleric who then goes and preaches extremism once he's got the permit? I'm not picking on Islam. The same applies to any system of faith that has preachers who preach hatred.


The government would review the religious groups applying to get preaching permits for their preachers, and if their teachings broke the law, then legal action would be taken against the religion.


You're still not answering the question. How difficult it is for an organisation to claim something and then do something completely different under the system you've suggested? You're also leaving it up to the religious organisation to police its own preachers which is daft.


I was actually expecting members of the public to report permit-less preachers. I'm sure many people would happily tell tale.


Only if they don't like what they are hearing


Indeed. Little could be done.
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