Are the Jews Genetically Different?
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Re: Are the Jews Genetically Different?
#441 
by Agrippina » Mar 01, 2011 5:15 am
Mr samsa wrote:
Nice. That sorted out my confusion about what he was saying.
This is the problematic part. What you're suggesting is this:
1) Musical activities produced epigenetic changes that hunting and other similar work did not - i.e. it exposed them to more chemicals or caused them higher levels of stress.
2) These epigenetic changes, for no reason at all, just happened to affect the people in ways that coincided with the activities they were doing at the time - i.e. playing the violin, even though no epigenetic theory has ever suggested this is likely or possible (in other words, Peter Parker gets bitten by a spider and now he can climb walls).
3) These changes were inheritable
4) There was a selection pressure for these changes.
The level of impossibility increases with each link in your thought process. #1 is conceivably possible, but #2 is so insanely wrong that it's not even worth considering. And since #3 and #4 rely on the truth of the previous premises, then they are at the same level of impossibility.
At the end of the day you need to understand this:
Epigenetic changes caused by playing the violin, if possible, would be a result of something like stress or consistent contact with some kind of chemicals. As such, the epigenetic changes will be similar to all kinds of epigenetic changes caused by stress - that is, there is no reason to think that the epigenetic change in this situation would be consistent with an improvement in violin playing ability.
Nice. That sorted out my confusion about what he was saying.
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities, has the power to make you commit injustices.
Voltaire
Voltaire
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Re: Are the Jews Genetically Different?
#442 by Shrunk » Mar 01, 2011 11:32 am
Agrippina wrote: Nice. That sorted out my confusion about what he was saying.
Yes. The difference between "Lamarckism" and "neo-Lamarckism": Lamarckism says that acquired morphological or behavioural traits are passed on to descendents. Neo-Lamarckism says that acquired genetic changes can be passed on to descendents. IOW, in strict neo-Darwinism, any mutations that increase genetic diversity, and upon which natural selection can act, occur sometime between gamete formation in the parent and the birth of the child. Whatever genetic changes the child is born with is all he can pass on to his progeny. "Neo-Lamarckism" simply states that genetic changes can also be acquired after birth and these can also be passed on to progeny. It doesn't mean that the child of a parent who lifts weights will be born with big biceps. Hopefully everyone in this thread gets it now.
"The person who follows the pursuit of reason unflinchingly toward its end will be atheistic or, at best, agnostic." -William Lane Craig, Christian apologist.
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Re: Are the Jews Genetically Different?
#443 by Federico » Mar 01, 2011 2:11 pm
If I could have had the power to predict the future when I started this thread on August 30, 2010, I am sure I would have stopped on my tracks so not to cause an acrimonious debate on technical details of no interest to the Forumists.
Actually, I was rather expecting an accusation of racism for suggesting the Jews had specific genetic markings, and this is what I wrote then:
".... the existence of subtle albeit powerful differences in the way genes are regulated which give rise to differences in the phenotype between single human beings belonging to the same ethnic group, as well as between humans belonging to different ethnic groups.
The way people use these data to extrapolate to differences in values is pure racism and certainly does not invalidate the search for genomic differences resulting (e.g.) in different susceptibility to various diseases."
Now I believe it's time to move on -- as suggested by Mr.Samsa -- to a thread (The Cognitive Brain) more congruous with topics which I personally find quite stimulating such as:
Actually, I was rather expecting an accusation of racism for suggesting the Jews had specific genetic markings, and this is what I wrote then:
".... the existence of subtle albeit powerful differences in the way genes are regulated which give rise to differences in the phenotype between single human beings belonging to the same ethnic group, as well as between humans belonging to different ethnic groups.
The way people use these data to extrapolate to differences in values is pure racism and certainly does not invalidate the search for genomic differences resulting (e.g.) in different susceptibility to various diseases."
Now I believe it's time to move on -- as suggested by Mr.Samsa -- to a thread (The Cognitive Brain) more congruous with topics which I personally find quite stimulating such as:
- Music and the Brain
- Chess and Other Mathematical Skills and the Brain
- Sex and the Brain
- Memory and the Brain
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.(Martin Luther King Jr)
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