Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#141  Postby mindhack » Aug 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Nora_Leonard wrote:However they had the humanity to leave a note warning whoever found them/the coronoer to beware the corrosive poison they had swallowed.

I think this kind of behaviour speaks for a rational basis for some suicides. However, in my example, he had been fighting depression for years. Which was both a physiological and a mental disease in his case.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#142  Postby Aern Rakesh » Aug 24, 2012 2:39 pm

mindhack wrote:
Nora_Leonard wrote:However they had the humanity to leave a note warning whoever found them/the coronoer to beware the corrosive poison they had swallowed.

I think this kind of behaviour speaks for a rational basis for some suicides. However, in my example, he had been fighting depression for years. Which was both a physiological and a mental disease in his case.

Yes. Unfortunately one of the worse aspects of true clinical depression (and I'm meaning the kind that goes beyond the 'feeling' of being depressed, for in really bad cases there is no feeling whatsoever) is that the state of non-feeling 'feels' eternal.

Another thing I've read in a book of accounts of 'failed' suicide (i.e. those cases where it was truly a fluke that the person survived, in other words it wasn't a call for help) is how often the person reported that their field of vision had narrowed down to the ledge, or the rope, or the razor blade, i.e. a kind of tunnel vision where nothing but the 'way out' enters the field.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#143  Postby Sinde » Oct 31, 2012 4:04 am

Sertorius wrote:It is idiotic to assume that a decision to commit suicide implies mental disease and needs to be "cured".

When a person decides to end his own life, it is absolutely nobody else's business.

The incarceration and torture of people in psychiatric insititutions for the sole reason of "danger to oneself" is one of the biggest disgraces in the civilised world today.

To me, it seems that a person who enjoys drinking tomato juice can't be in his right mind. But I'm no longer a child and I realise that another person's doing something I find disgusting is not a legitimate reason of declaring him mentally ill.


Indeed. It's basically a way to control the power people have over their own lives not unlike abortion. I can understand the impulse in a tribal setting and the selfishness of family members but in general a person should have the freedom to do as they please with their life.

The only problem comes in for people with one foot in and one foot out, people who ruining their lives but can't take that final step.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#144  Postby Gallstones » Oct 31, 2012 6:42 am

Predicting Suicide: Doctors' New Assessment Tool
In [Dr. Igor] Galynker's research, he hypothesizes that this state of mind precedes the urge to act, describing it as "really severe anxiety ... like being sucked through vortex."

Patients "try to come out, but they can't," he said.

There are three things, he says, that happen in that state: an endless cycle of hopeless thinking that cannot be controlled, the frantic sensation of being trapped and physical sensations that aren't based in reality.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#145  Postby Minimolas » Nov 24, 2012 4:16 am

I think that everyone has the natural right to do what they want with their life, this right should not be infringed. If someone wants to commit suicide, then they absolutely have the right. While they should obviously consider the consequences and try to get help, I think there are times when it just makes sense.

Let's say that you are lying on the ground, with two broke ankles, surrounded by zombies. They are closing in on you and you don't have enough ammunition to fight them off. Would you rather be eaten alive and go through immense pain, or end your life with a single bullet? I believe that most people would choose to take a bullet to the head.

To say that someone should try to get help is good advice but is also silly because the person probably all ready has tried to get help or support in some way, and it just wasn't what they needed.

It is the individual right of everyone to control their life. It is liberty.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#146  Postby Sinde » Dec 05, 2012 2:44 pm

I think most people throughout history have taken it for granted that you can kill yourself to avoid shame or pain though, the idea that suicide is ABSOLUTELY wrong seems to be a Judeo-Christian construct.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#147  Postby ryanphilostudent » Mar 26, 2014 9:52 pm

As a person fortunate to be studying philosophy and by this i meaning having the time to sit and think for large quantities of time without the worries that everyday life can give I have pondered a great deal the meaning of rationality, reasoned judgement and decision making.

I believe that it is entirely reasonable for someone to choose to commit suicide on rational grounds if rational is that which can be put into a valid logical form that is backed up by intuitively sound premises. Disability is something of a relative term built in a societal construct. Is needing glasses a disability? in the same way as missing limbs?
Is it irrational to choose to commit suicide on the basis that you want to experience it and simply cannot wait such and such years. I wouldn't say we know for sure what death is, none of us has experienced it directly and those that have don't tend to speak about it. For many people Death is oncoming doom filled with anxiety and fear and often we deal with the same feelings by facing them head on as opposed to ignoring or running away. An example of a thing that may produce the same feelings could be; an important exam, starting a new job, doing anything new really.

Anyway, that's my opinion and thanks for listening :)

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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#148  Postby DavidMcC » May 14, 2014 11:01 am

ryanphilostudent wrote:As a person fortunate to be studying philosophy and by this i meaning having the time to sit and think for large quantities of time without the worries that everyday life can give I have pondered a great deal the meaning of rationality, reasoned judgement and decision making.

I believe that it is entirely reasonable for someone to choose to commit suicide on rational grounds if rational is that which can be put into a valid logical form that is backed up by intuitively sound premises. Disability is something of a relative term built in a societal construct. Is needing glasses a disability? in the same way as missing limbs?
Is it irrational to choose to commit suicide on the basis that you want to experience it and simply cannot wait such and such years. I wouldn't say we know for sure what death is, none of us has experienced it directly and those that have don't tend to speak about it. For many people Death is oncoming doom filled with anxiety and fear and often we deal with the same feelings by facing them head on as opposed to ignoring or running away. An example of a thing that may produce the same feelings could be; an important exam, starting a new job, doing anything new really.

Anyway, that's my opinion and thanks for listening :)

Ry

In doubt that curiosity about what it's like to die is a common reason for suicide. Humans have a strong survival instinct/will to live (created by natural selection, acting on all our ancestors that had a will) that usually overcomes any such curiosity. It would take a mental illness, IMO, for curiosity about dying to win out. As others have said, there are plenty of more compelling reasons for suicide, such as terminal illness, severe and unavoidable maltreatment, certain war situations, etc.
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Re: Can you truly make a reasoned decision to commit suicide?

#149  Postby Pithikos » Jun 01, 2014 12:04 pm

So you pretty much ask if a decision to suicide can be taken with a rational mind instead of an irrational(say due to desperation)?

Then my answer is yes. Some good example is how philosopher Socrates died. He was convicted for "spreading scepticism" and the sentence was death by poison. He could have avoided that several times but he instead decided to die and was very calm about it.

His conviction and death sparkled big scepticism in his pupil Platon about the establishment in Athens and many of Platons ideas arose from that. Probably Socrates couldn't know that all that might happen, but he probably knew that dying for your ideas can have a good after effect and is the right thing to do.
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