Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

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Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#1  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 12:06 am

AHEM! - no poll option :winge winge winge:

Everybody I know has got enough money to piss it away on booze/fags/drugs/flash cars/foreign holidays etc ad infinitum. Thoughts?
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#2  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 12:38 am

Restaurants/takeaways/taxis/prostitutes/jewellery...
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#3  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 3:26 am

You have without probably realising it contradicted yourself here because in another thread you said ninety
per cent of everyone on your estate is on ESA but now they have apparently morphed into the very well off
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#4  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 4:46 am

I have not contradicted myself - the funds and resources held /received by those on ESA are sufficient to afford ALL the luxuries so far listed to a certain degree - and many many more not listed. We're all fucking loaded/spoilt rotten.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#5  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 5:04 am

Bristol 'worst place in UK' to work, says prostitute (video)

"There's so much competition because all the girls are so desperate to make money"

Why are they desperate to make money beyond those funds/resources received by those on benefits if, indeed, they can't find a more conventional job? What's the matter darlin; only got 5 Gucci handbags? Need another 20 stone/snowball? It's a load of old bollocks.
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A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#6  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 5:27 am

Dogs/cats/rabbits/ferrets/flamingos...
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#7  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 5:31 am

I would need something more substantial than your opinion about those on ESA being loaded
But if they really are then they have alternative sources of income other than their benefits

As you have mentioned prostitutes that confirms my point even though those particular ones dont appear all that loaded
So take away their alternative sources of income and they would not be able to enjoy the lifestyle they presumably have
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#8  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 6:11 am

surreptitious57 wrote:I would need something more substantial than your opinion about those on ESA being loaded
But if they really are then they have alternative sources of income other than their benefits


Nope. Let me walk you through it sur; ESA minimum = circa £400 a month (and that's assuming they don't get PIP too). I am aware of some people in my neighbourhood who receive circa £900 combined ESA and PIP. Rent paid too (circa £400 price). Council tax paid too (circa £100 price). £13.30 a day to spend on minimum ESA. As long as one has learnt to switch to utilita which has no standard daily charge - Electricity £0.40. Gas £0.30. Water 0.80. Food £2.50 - this can be explained with the use of an illustrative example of some shopping from Farmfoods (which can be delivered free of charge to boot) - 15 eggs £1; 2 loaves of bread £1; 1kg margarine £1; 500 ml ketchup £0.50 - total cost £3.50 providing 5/6 large meals. Clothing £1 (and that's generous if one uses charity shops). Toiletries/cleaning products £0.30. Total daily expenditure on "essentials" = £5 leaving £8.50 for luxuries (I remind the reader at this point that this example is based on the lowest ESA amount).

So lets work in some "basic" luxuries - Tobacco/rizla/filters/lighters - £2 (50g tobacco from one of the many dodgy shops the feds turn a blind eye to - £6; 5 packets rizla from poundland - £1; 300 filters poundland - £1; 5 lighters poundland - £1). £6.50 remaining. Internet £0.80. Mobile phone £0.50. TV licence £0.40 (assuming you don't fancy the "stress" of refusing them entry if they ever come to check up on you). £4.80 a day - £1752 a year remaining...need I continue?
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#9  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 7:01 am

All that extra luxury you quoted costs a lot more than I752 and that budget is quite
minimal and so anyone on ESA would have less than that left over for anything else

Who eats nothing but bread and eggs all year round but still has a flash car and takes luxury holidays
No one so if anyone is living the high life they will definitely have some alternative source of income
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#10  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 7:04 am

What flash car do you drive and what luxury holidays do you take
And can you only eat bread and eggs so that you can afford them
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#11  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 7:19 am

Bread and eggs aren't the only cheap foods available sur - would you like some more examples? I'll happily give another 10 if it'll help. 2nd hand nice BMW lasting 5 years - £1000. Running costs...I mean why anybody living in a city would need a car is beyond me (actually; how anybody with a shred of responsibility/ethics can bear to own a car is beyond me) but still...£1000 a year? Total cost £1200. £552 remaining. 1 luxury holiday every 3 years - £200 a year. A pet dog - £200 a year. £152 remaining. Again, I remind the reader that this worked example is based on the minimum amount of ESA.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#12  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 7:36 am

I could be cheeky at this juncture and hypothesise that this indevidual works 20 hours a week on minimum wage (this is allowed without losing any benefits) - so that's another £6000 a year to play with. Game. Over.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#13  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 7:40 am

And/or hypothesise that they receive a more usual amount of ESA - Say £600 a month instead of £400 - that's a further £2400 a year to play with.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#14  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 7:42 am

surreptitious57 wrote:What flash car do you drive and what luxury holidays do you take


I don't own or want a car. I have no desire to travel - It's expensive and bad for the environment and I have the internet.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#15  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 8:14 am

A second hand Beemer is not a flash car and taking a luxury holiday once every three years is hardly extravagant so those examples dont actually support your argument. People who own really flash cars and take luxury holidays every year are
not on ESA because they are at the very top of the financial food chain while anyone on benefits is usually at the bottom
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#16  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 8:38 am

surreptitious57 wrote:A second hand Beemer is not a flash car

It's not exactly a used lada, escort or a robin reliant now is it sur and in fact any privately owned car is a massive luxury according to any remotely temporally acurate comparative historical perspective. But if you insist you can have a brand new motor paying £300 a month on finance - so that's £3600 a year - easily affordable (eg on moderate ESA amount/receiving PIP/working a part time job).

surreptitious57 wrote:taking a luxury holiday once every three years is hardly extravagant

Says you. I haven't been abroad in 15 years and you don't see me complaining. There's money in the bank to take more though if you really are so irresponsible you're willing to dump pollution straight into the upper atmosphere by flying a quarter of the way round the world just so you can feel the wind on your face while you look at the views around your destination.

surreptitious57 wrote:People who own really flash cars and take luxury holidays every year are not on ESA because they are at the very top of the financial food chain while anyone on benefits is usually at the bottom.

That's the point sur - even those at the bottom of the "financial food chain" (what a hideous phrase BTW :yuk: ) bathe in luxury in Europe.
Last edited by Keep It Real on Feb 14, 2018 9:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#17  Postby zulumoose » Feb 14, 2018 8:45 am

I know plenty of people in S.A. who work full time, and can never afford travel or holidays, cannot afford a decent vehicle, or medical insurance, have no savings or pension, struggle to pay for school fees, yet are on the receiving end of reverse-racism because they are white. They earn less than the U.K. minimum wage despite having "respectable" career titles.

In S.A. we have to pay large amounts from our salaries for what is free in the U.K. security, healthcare and education.
We also pay ridiculous amounts for transport, insurance, communication and media access.
Unempoyment is over 26% as of today for active job seekers. No unemployment benefits worth mentioning.
Tax is also very high, no prizes for guessing how well that money is managed.

In comparison the U.K. is a paradise for the unemployed or low-medium wage earner.
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#18  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 8:49 am

zulumoose wrote:I know plenty of people in S.A. who work full time, and can never afford travel or holidays, cannot afford a decent vehicle, or medical insurance, have no savings or pension, struggle to pay for school fees, yet are on the receiving end of reverse-racism because they are white. They earn less than the U.K. minimum wage despite having "respectable" career titles.

In S.A. we have to pay large amounts from our salaries for what is free in the U.K. security, healthcare and education.
We also pay ridiculous amounts for transport, insurance, communication and media access.
Unempoyment is over 26% as of today for active job seekers. No unemployment benefits worth mentioning.
Tax is also very high, no prizes for guessing how well that money is managed.

In comparison the U.K. is a paradise for the unemployed or low-medium wage earner.


No argument here zulumoose. Spot on. I'm sorry to hear so many of your countrymen struggle in these ways. :nono:
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#19  Postby Keep It Real » Feb 14, 2018 9:14 am

surreptitious57 wrote:taking a luxury holiday once every three years is hardly extravagant


Several of these hominins used fire, occupied much of Eurasia, and gave rise to anatomically modern Homo sapiens in Africa about 315,000[6] years ago.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

The de Havilland DH 106 Comet was the world's first commercial jetliner. Developed and manufactured by de Havilland at its Hatfield Aerodrome in Hertfordshire, United Kingdom, the Comet 1 prototype first flew in 1949.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Comet

A little perspective please sur.
Once one accepts one has to have an imperfect life, one need no longer strive to be the best/have the best/PWN the world.

A - "Rod Howard is worth $6.5 billion currently!" B - "How much does he want in the end?"
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Re: Do we live in a de facto post scarcity economy in Europe?

#20  Postby surreptitious57 » Feb 14, 2018 9:21 am


Deliberately using too little perspective just to make my point seem meaningless
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