Freedom of Expression in the Internet

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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#21  Postby Trevor » Aug 19, 2013 11:01 am

seems ok, but how much tolerance does it give?

only PC tolerance or the real deal?
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#22  Postby Federico » Aug 19, 2013 1:02 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:Frederico, I apologise if I missed it, but what is your view on the issue?


I must thank you for showing such a complimentary interest in my opinion on such a complex issue. Actually, to date, I have not yet given it. The reason being I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, as with other media, total freedom of expression is unacceptable since it would open the doors to all kind of abuses. On the other hand, giving governments surveillance and censorship powers over the Net may have devastating effects on the global capacity of exchanging ideas and informations Internauts presently enjoy.

Actually, my feelings are well represented in an article published by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and titled "Internet Surveillance and Free Speech: the United Nations Makes the Connection." I quote :

Frank La Rue, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression and Opinion delivered this week a landmark report on state surveillance and freedom of expression which emphasizes that Communications surveillance should be regarded as a highly intrusive act that potentially interferes with the rights to freedom of expression and privacy and threatens the foundations of a democratic society. [Therefore]

Legislation must stipulate that State surveillance of communications must only occur under the most exceptional circumstances and exclusively under the supervision of an independent judicial authority.

La Rue recommends that legal frameworks be established to ensure that communication surveillance measures:

* Are prescribed by law, meeting a standard of clarity and precision that is sufficient to ensure that individuals have advance notice of and can foresee their application,

*Are strictly and demonstrably necessary to achieve a legitimate aim,

*Adhere to the principle of proportionality, and are not employed when less invasive techniques are available which have not yet been exhausted.
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.(Martin Luther King Jr)
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#23  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Aug 19, 2013 2:31 pm

Federico wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:Frederico, I apologise if I missed it, but what is your view on the issue?


I must thank you for showing such a complimentary interest in my opinion on such a complex issue. Actually, to date, I have not yet given it. The reason being I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, as with other media, total freedom of expression is unacceptable since it would open the doors to all kind of abuses. On the other hand, giving governments surveillance and censorship powers over the Net may have devastating effects on the global capacity of exchanging ideas and informations Internauts presently enjoy.

Actually, my feelings are well represented in an article published by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and titled "Internet Surveillance and Free Speech: the United Nations Makes the Connection." I quote :

Frank La Rue, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression and Opinion delivered this week a landmark report on state surveillance and freedom of expression which emphasizes that Communications surveillance should be regarded as a highly intrusive act that potentially interferes with the rights to freedom of expression and privacy and threatens the foundations of a democratic society. [Therefore]

Legislation must stipulate that State surveillance of communications must only occur under the most exceptional circumstances and exclusively under the supervision of an independent judicial authority.

La Rue recommends that legal frameworks be established to ensure that communication surveillance measures:

* Are prescribed by law, meeting a standard of clarity and precision that is sufficient to ensure that individuals have advance notice of and can foresee their application,

*Are strictly and demonstrably necessary to achieve a legitimate aim,

*Adhere to the principle of proportionality, and are not employed when less invasive techniques are available which have not yet been exhausted.

I see. Thanks for clarifying.
If I may ask what's your opinion on the downloading of movies, books etc?
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#24  Postby WalterMitty » Aug 19, 2013 6:35 pm

Trevor wrote:can just do the same with online material - warnings could be given on links (ie: hate speech, pornography etc.) - people just want big brother / nanny to protect them.


Yes, trevor, lets warn people that the link they are about to click goes to CP.

Now if you don't want to see porn , violence , hate etc.. then go look at bbc.com or something - sheesh, not rocket science


And Ive already suggested to you that if you dont like the rules and restrictions on what can be posted on the internet then go dl TOR.

That is the stupidity of your position, trevor; you do not have to be here, specifically and generally, feeling restricted by the rules of internet posting and conduct. Another web does exist where you can post 100% crap, freely, to your hearts content.
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#25  Postby Federico » Aug 20, 2013 11:51 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

I see. Thanks for clarifying.
If I may ask what's your opinion on the downloading of movies, books etc?


As I have previously written, supporters say ACTA — the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement — is needed to standardize international laws that protect the intellectual property rights. Opponents fear it would lead to censorship and a loss of privacy on the Internet. They are both right, IMO. What is needed is a new electronic way of making the pirates pay their dues without privacy infringements.
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#26  Postby Federico » Aug 21, 2013 12:07 pm

Federico wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:

I see. Thanks for clarifying.
If I may ask what's your opinion on the downloading of movies, books etc?


As I have previously written, supporters say ACTA — the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement — is needed to standardize international laws that protect the intellectual property rights. Opponents fear it would lead to censorship and a loss of privacy on the Internet. They are both right, IMO. What is needed is a new electronic way of making the pirates pay their dues without privacy infringements.


Actually, what is more worrying as far as the Internet is concerned, is the fact is that the net is finished as a global network and that US firms' cloud services cannot be trusted, as recently written by John Naughton for The Guardian. (I quote):

"While the press concentrates on the furore surrounding Edward Snowden's search for political asylum, it has forgotten the importance of his revelations.
Repeat after me: Edward Snowden is not the story. The story is what he has revealed about the hidden wiring of our networked world. This insight seems to have escaped most of the world's mainstream media, for reasons that escape me but would not have surprised Evelyn Waugh, whose contempt for journalists was one of his few endearing characteristics. The obvious explanations are: incorrigible ignorance; the imperative to personalise stories; or gullibility in swallowing US government spin, which brands Snowden as a spy rather than a whistleblower.

In a way, it doesn't matter why the media lost the scent. What matters is that they did. So as a public service, let us summarise what Snowden has achieved thus far.

Without him, we would not know how the National Security Agency (NSA) had been able to access the emails, Facebook accounts and videos of citizens across the world; or how it had secretly acquired the phone records of millions of Americans; or how, through a secret court, it has been able to bend nine US internet companies to its demands for access to their users' data
.

...... here are some of the things we should be thinking about as a result of what we have learned so far.

The first is that the days of the internet as a truly global network are numbered. It was always a possibility that the system would eventually be Balkanised, ie divided into a number of geographical or jurisdiction-determined subnets as societies such as China, Russia, Iran and other Islamic states decided that they needed to control how their citizens communicated. Now, Balkanisation is a certainty.

Second, the issue of internet governance is about to become very contentious. Given what we now know about how the US and its satraps have been abusing their privileged position in the global infrastructure, the idea that the western powers can be allowed to continue to control it has become untenable.

Third, as Evgeny Morozov has pointed out, the Obama administration's "internet freedom agenda" has been exposed as patronising cant. "Today," he writes, "the rhetoric of the 'internet freedom agenda' looks as trustworthy as George Bush's 'freedom agenda' after Abu Ghraib."


......no US-based internet company can be trusted to protect our privacy or data. The fact is that Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are all integral components of the US cyber-surveillance system. Nothing, but nothing, that is stored in their "cloud" services can be guaranteed to be safe from surveillance or from illicit downloading by employees of the consultancies employed by the NSA. That means that if you're thinking of outsourcing your troublesome IT operations to, say, Google or Microsoft, then think again.

So when your chief information officer proposes to use the Amazon or Google cloud as a data-store for your company's confidential documents, tell him where to file the proposal. In the shredder."


We are talking about "Freedom to Snoop" using and abusing our beloved net.
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#27  Postby Federico » Aug 22, 2013 11:39 am

Federico wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:

I see. Thanks for clarifying.
If I may ask what's your opinion on the downloading of movies, books etc?


As I have previously written, supporters say ACTA — the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement — is needed to standardize international laws that protect the intellectual property rights. Opponents fear it would lead to censorship and a loss of privacy on the Internet. They are both right, IMO. What is needed is a new electronic way of making the pirates pay their dues without privacy infringements.


I believe an article recently written for The Economist, and titled "Pennies streaming from heaven" provides an even better answer to your question. I quote:

"FASTER than a speeding bit, the internet upended media and entertainment companies. Piracy soared, and sales of albums and films slid. Newspapers lost advertising and readers to websites. Stores selling books, CDs and DVDs went bust. Doomsayers predicted that consumers and advertisers would abandon pay-television en masse in favour of online alternatives. Jeff Zucker, then boss of NBCUniversal, spoke for all media moguls in 2008 when he condemned the trend of “trading analogue dollars for digital pennies”.

It has been a long wait, but those digital pennies are starting to pile up. The internet once destroyed jobs and companies, but it has now become an engine of growth for old media, including music, television and books. In 2008 around 12% of consumer spending on media and entertainment products was devoted to digital ones; it should reach around half by 2017. Admittedly, many parts of the media industry will not recover their highs for years, if ever. The music business is about 40% below its peak of 1999. But the internet has stopped bludgeoning old media and is now boosting it. In 2012 recorded music had its first year of (very modest) growth in more than a decade.
"

".....Digital technology lets the media industry try out new models and content in “beta” form, as with software, and then adjust them according to how consumers react. E.L. James’s “Fifty Shades of Grey”, an erotic novel, was first put out online and as an e-book before a traditional publisher bought the rights. The Washington Post’s new owner, Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, promises to try lots of new ideas for making news pay."
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#28  Postby Federico » Aug 24, 2013 11:48 am

Federico wrote:

......no US-based internet company can be trusted to protect our privacy or data. The fact is that Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Amazon, Apple and Microsoft are all integral components of the US cyber-surveillance system. Nothing, but nothing, that is stored in their "cloud" services can be guaranteed to be safe from surveillance or from illicit downloading by employees of the consultancies employed by the NSA. That means that if you're thinking of outsourcing your troublesome IT operations to, say, Google or Microsoft, then think again."


Well, apparently, as we can read in today's Financial Times, something is being done, and I quote from an article entitled

"Internet launches fightback against state snoopers", written by Robert Cookson, Digital Media Correspondent:

"Key architects of the internet have started to fight back against US and UK snooping programmes by drawing up an ambitious plan to defend traffic over the world wide web against mass surveillance.

The Internet Engineering Task Force, a body that develops internet standards, has proposed a system in which all communication between websites and browsers would be shielded by encryption. "

"....While the plan is at an early stage, it has the potential to transform a large part of the internet and make it more difficult for governments, companies and criminals to eavesdrop on people as they browse the web. At present, only a fraction of all websites – typically those that handle financial information – encrypt data when communicating with web browsers."

"Google and Twitter are among several big companies that have long called for more encryption of web traffic. Chrome, Google’s popular web browser, already allows people to encrypt their activity when browsing any of the company’s websites.

However, security experts said that while TLS encryption would make surveillance more difficult, it was far from foolproof.

“If you’re looking for a silver bullet to make people’s personal traffic impossible to break, this won’t be it,” said Sam Curry, chief technologist at RSA, a computer security company.

Hackers, especially those with substantial computing power, would find ways to crack the encryption or get around it by exploiting other vulnerabilities in the network."
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#29  Postby Federico » Sep 21, 2013 3:01 pm

Unfortunately, we have now in front of us, splattered in the news, an awful example of how pernicious may be freedom in the Internet:

In Wednesday NBC News: "Massive on line pedophile ring busted by cops." I quote:

" An Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members — thought to be the world's largest —has been uncovered by police, a security official said Wednesday.

The European police agency Europol said in a statement that "Operation Rescue" had identified 670 suspects and that 230 abused children in 30 countries had been taken to safety. More children are expected to be found, Europol said.

It said that so far 184 people had been arrested and investigations in some countries were continuing. Most of those detained are suspected of direct involvement in sexually abusing children.

They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported. One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years."

"....The website operated from a server based in the Netherlands and, at its height, boasted up to 70,000 members worldwide," it added.
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"It attempted to operate as a 'discussion–only' forum where people could share their sexual interest in young boys without committing any specific offences, thus operating 'below the radar' of police attention," Europol said.

"...Law enforcement authorities from 13 countries, including the United States, Australia, Canada, Italy, Spain and the U.K., were involved in the case. "


May be it's only paranoia, but it seems to me pedophiles are like vermin infesting a dilapidated house: the more you look for it the more you find. I hope someday a mean will be found to get rid of the human vermin.
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#30  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 21, 2013 3:03 pm

Federico wrote:Unfortunately, we have now in front of us, splattered in the news, an awful example of how pernicious may be freedom in the Internet:

In Wednesday NBC News: "Massive on line pedophile ring busted by cops." I quote:

" An Internet pedophile ring with up to 70,000 members — thought to be the world's largest —has been uncovered by police, a security official said Wednesday.

The European police agency Europol said in a statement that "Operation Rescue" had identified 670 suspects and that 230 abused children in 30 countries had been taken to safety. More children are expected to be found, Europol said.

It said that so far 184 people had been arrested and investigations in some countries were continuing. Most of those detained are suspected of direct involvement in sexually abusing children.

They include teachers, police officers and scout leaders, AP reported. One Spaniard who worked at summer youth camps is suspected of abusing some 100 children over five years."

"....The website operated from a server based in the Netherlands and, at its height, boasted up to 70,000 members worldwide," it added.
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"It attempted to operate as a 'discussion–only' forum where people could share their sexual interest in young boys without committing any specific offences, thus operating 'below the radar' of police attention," Europol said.

"...Law enforcement authorities from 13 countries, including the United States, Australia, Canada, Italy, Spain and the U.K., were involved in the case. "


May be it's only paranoia, but it seems to me pedophiles are like vermin infesting a dilapidated house: the more you look for it the more you find. I hope someday a mean will be found to get rid of the human vermin.

Except this has nothing to do with freedom of expression on the internet as peadophelic online content is forbidden by both EU and individual nations laws.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#31  Postby Federico » Sep 22, 2013 11:38 am

Thomas Eshuis wrote:

Except this has nothing to do with freedom of expression on the internet as peadophelic online content is forbidden by both EU and individual nations laws.


It may be forbidden, but this didn't stop the pedophile ring from opening a website, using for many years a server based in the Netherlands, due to the tolerant attitude of people responsible for Internet security and a belief in total freedom of expression.

As reported in the NBC News "Australian Federal Police commander Grant Edwards said suspects arrested in Australia ranged in age from 19 to 84 and used the Internet to "prey on children with anonymity, with subterfuge and with camouflage."

Children, Edwards said, "should be able to use the Internet safely, without fear of being approached or groomed by these online predators."
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Re: Freedom of Expression in the Internet

#32  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Sep 22, 2013 2:16 pm

Federico wrote:
Thomas Eshuis wrote:

Except this has nothing to do with freedom of expression on the internet as peadophelic online content is forbidden by both EU and individual nations laws.


It may be forbidden, but this didn't stop the pedophile ring from opening a website, using for many years a server based in the Netherlands, due to the tolerant attitude of people responsible for Internet security and a belief in total freedom of expression.

Or perhaps because the responsible authorities hadn't noticed yet? Or they were already investegating?
Do you have any evidence for your claim, or is this yet another blind assertions based on projection?

As reported in the NBC News "Australian Federal Police commander Grant Edwards said suspects arrested in Australia ranged in age from 19 to 84 and used the Internet to "prey on children with anonymity, with subterfuge and with camouflage."

Federico wrote:Children, Edwards said, "should be able to use the Internet safely, without fear of being approached or groomed by these online predators."

Of course they should, problem is that the internet isn't as easy to monitor as other media services.
None of the above has to do with freedom of expression on the internet.
"Respect for personal beliefs = "I am going to tell you all what I think of YOU, but don't dare retort and tell what you think of ME because...it's my personal belief". Hmm. A bully's charter and no mistake."
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