Good countries

The ones who do the most good in the world

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Re: Good countries

#41  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 10:44 am

What would you expect?
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Re: Good countries

#42  Postby Sendraks » Dec 10, 2014 10:45 am

Animavore wrote:Go fuck yourself.

Go educate yourself.

Animavore wrote:You're viewing through an anti-Irish lens. As I've said, you don't even realise you're doing it.


As I've said. Being critical and opposed to people who hold certain views or enact certain policies does not make me anti a given nation.
Get some perspective.

Otherwise I might as well say that your attacks on me make you anti-British. Which makes as much sense as the position you've adopted.
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Re: Good countries

#43  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 10:45 am

Sendraks wrote:
I make a criticism = I'm anti-irish.


Its the wording you're using is the problem. "Backward", "Pointy-hatted, medieval trolls". As I've said, you don't even realise youre doing it.
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Re: Good countries

#44  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 10:47 am

Sendraks wrote:
As I've said. Being critical and opposed to people who hold certain views or enact certain policies does not make me anti a given nation.
Get some perspective.


Language you're using, not the criticism itself.
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Re: Good countries

#45  Postby jamest » Dec 10, 2014 10:47 am

My great grandma was Irish, which probably explains why I like potatoes.
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Re: Good countries

#46  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 10:47 am

Ireland is not perfect by far but even in the time I have known personally it has drastically changed.

A few old dinosaurs are still kicking around but many a country in Europe (including Britain) could follow Ireland's example.
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Re: Good countries

#47  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 10:51 am

The view on homosexuality by Sendrakas couldn't be more wrong. Homosexuals are very tolerated over here nowadays. I don't even know where he's getting is information from.

75pc of LGBT people feel Ireland a 'welcoming place' to live as Europe best ranked continent

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/75 ... 42392.html
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Re: Good countries

#48  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 10:52 am

Animavore wrote:The view on homosexuality by Sendrakas couldn't be more wrong. Homosexuals are very tolerated over here nowadays. I don't even know where he's getting is information from.

75pc of LGBT people feel Ireland a 'welcoming place' to live as Europe best ranked continent

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/75 ... 42392.html


Well from his "friends".
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Re: Good countries

#49  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 10:54 am

Look. I'm sorry for losing the head, but Sendrakas needs to realise that anti-Irish sentiment is still a sore issue here. I get to call my people backward, potato-eating Paddy's if I want, but English people don't get to say that. It's no different to, say, black people get to use the 'n' word while whites don't. We still remember the cartoons, the Victorian views of Francis Galton and the headlines in the British tabloids in the 80s.
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Re: Good countries

#50  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 10:55 am

People like Sendraks forget where Ireland is coming from. It is not coming from the 19th century but from middle of the 20th. century when my wife was growing up in Ireland. The control the church had is beyond many people's imagination.

To see where it is today is amazing.
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Re: Good countries

#51  Postby The_Piper » Dec 10, 2014 10:58 am

Fallible wrote:Image

:hide:

:lol:
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Re: Good countries

#52  Postby Sendraks » Dec 10, 2014 10:59 am

Animavore wrote:Its the wording you're using is the problem. "Backward", "Pointy-hatted, medieval trolls". As I've said, you don't even realise youre doing it.


I've no problem with referring to the catholic church as "pointy hatted, medieval trolls." The catholic church remains one of the key chains holding Ireland back from making progress on equality. Once that is gone, I'll have no concerns about Ireland holding a number one slot on equality. You inferred, wrongly, from my posts that I was somehow applying this to the entire Irish population, rather than taking a breath and thinking about who I might be applying it to.

I have friends out in Ireland who, having lived most of their lives in Dublin, have moved out into the back of beyond. They described it as being very much like "craggy island" partly in jest, partly because the social attitudes expressed there were jarred with what they were used in the "big city." Then you'll find the same in the UK with people who live their lives in London and then get exposed to attitudes in the north of England. I'm not immune to the reality that the capital of a nation tends to be socially ahead of the rest.

Like Scot has said, I know attitudes in Ireland have drastically changed in my lifetime. I don't need to tell you that, you know it already. But, there are still "cliff faces" in social attitudes that are far from being completely eroded away.
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Re: Good countries

#53  Postby Sendraks » Dec 10, 2014 11:00 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Well from his "friends".


I take it you have "friends" in the UK?
Or is the concept of "friends" in other nations utterly alien to you?
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Re: Good countries

#54  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 11:06 am

Sendraks wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Well from his "friends".


I take it you have "friends" in the UK?
Or is the concept of "friends" in other nations utterly alien to you?


Of course not. Just a friendly dig. I thought somehow they were exactly as you described them. Remember like most capital cities they hardly represent the country they are a capital of.

I have plenty of acquaintances in other countries who I talk with now and again. The term "friend" means something very personal to me that I think is the difference.
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Re: Good countries

#55  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 11:11 am

Sendraks wrote:
I've no problem with referring to the catholic church as "pointy hatted, medieval trolls." The catholic church remains one of the key chains holding Ireland back from making progress on equality. Once that is gone, I'll have no concerns about Ireland holding a number one slot on equality. You inferred, wrongly, from my posts that I was somehow applying this to the entire Irish population, rather than taking a breath and thinking about who I might be applying it to.


The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.

Sendraks wrote:
I have friends out in Ireland who, having lived most of their lives in Dublin, have moved out into the back of beyond. They described it as being very much like "craggy island" partly in jest, partly because the social attitudes expressed there were jarred with what they were used in the "big city." Then you'll find the same in the UK with people who live their lives in London and then get exposed to attitudes in the north of England. I'm not immune to the reality that the capital of a nation tends to be socially ahead of the rest.


There was a major LGBT ceili in Lisdoonvarna of all places last month. Galway has a thriving gay community. Ireland just isn't that bad a place for homosexuals. The worst place is probably the North where people are still holding on to the religion out of nationalism.
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Re: Good countries

#56  Postby Sendraks » Dec 10, 2014 11:14 am

Scot Dutchy wrote: Of course not. Just a friendly dig. I thought somehow they were exactly as you described them. Remember like most capital cities they hardly represent the country they are a capital of.


I agree. For that reason I'm also very sceptical of survey data, which tends to be easily captured in large urban areas, typically the capital. I don't doubt that most folk from Dublin will have very progressive social attitudes, but I'd equally doubt (reinforced from the info I get from friends living out in rural Ireland) that this necessarily is representative of the entire nation.

Scot Dutchy wrote:I have plenty of acquaintances in other countries who I talk with now and again. The term "friend" means something very personal to me that I think is the difference.


Friend means something very personal to me as well. I don't apply the term to people lightly.
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Re: Good countries

#57  Postby Sendraks » Dec 10, 2014 11:24 am

Animavore wrote:The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.


There was another referendum in the early 00s I recall, where the NO vote won. There was a very heated debate on forums I visited at the time, with a number of Irish posters posting cogent arguments from both sides of the fence. Maybe 10 years ago seems fairly recent to me and that is colouring my views. Maybe it is because female friends over in Ireland keep posting articles from the Irish media which don't present a very positive attitude towards abortion.

Of course it could be exactly as you say and the anti-abortion lobby are running scared, hence the sudden flurry of reactionary material appearing.

Animavore wrote:There was a major LGBT ceili in Lisdoonvarna of all places last month. Galway has a thriving gay community. Ireland just isn't that bad a place for homosexuals.


This is all news to me. Which won't be news to you that its news to me. My friends out in Galway have painted a very different picture for me, but I can think of various reasons (mostly related to all work and no play) why this might well have passed them by.
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Re: Good countries

#58  Postby I'm With Stupid » Dec 10, 2014 11:26 am

Animavore wrote:The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.

Yeah, but surely the fact that you haven't been given a referendum and politicians don't feel that they can just go ahead and do it is testament to the power the church still holds in Irish politics? I wouldn't even say the Catholic church has no relevance in UK politics, never mind Irish. The Catholic church still runs 90% of your primary schools ffs, and a good number of the rest are protestant. It's obviously getting better, but there's a long way to go.
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Re: Good countries

#59  Postby Animavore » Dec 10, 2014 11:31 am

I'm With Stupid wrote:
Animavore wrote:The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.

Yeah, but surely the fact that you haven't been given a referendum and politicians don't feel that they can just go ahead and do it is testament to the power the church still holds in Irish politics? I wouldn't even say the Catholic church has no relevance in UK politics, never mind Irish. The Catholic church still runs 90% of your primary schools ffs, and a good number of the rest are protestant. It's obviously getting better, but there's a long way to go.

I'm not sure why politicians won't go ahead and do it. And the Catholic church running our schools doesn't mean anything much. They still have to go by the governement standards for education. They can't teach that homosexuality is wrong, or that sex outside of marriage or contraception is wrong, and have to give equal time to all religions. They're Catholic schools in name only.
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Re: Good countries

#60  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 10, 2014 11:32 am

That was my initial thought but my wife comes from County Limerick on the west side and even in that part of the world the changes have been drastic.

The church that played such a dominant role is now as Animavore says non existent. The local priest is from the Philippines. The post of curate has been empty for years.

The number of young people just cohabiting is not frowned upon anymore. Of course not everyone is happy with the situation but they are dying off. Contraceptives are readily available. My wife went to London to get them during her first affair.

Because of the changes of land ownership that was made at the time of the revolution Ireland is not handicapped by a small land owning elite as for instance is the case in the UK. Equality is there because of it.

Socially women are every bit equal to men in all walks of life. As Animavore said Galway is a great place to be if you are gay. To me when I was there it felt very much like here in its attitude to everyone.
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