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Sendraks wrote:I have friends out in Ireland who, having lived most of their lives in Dublin, have moved out into the back of beyond. They described it as being very much like "craggy island" partly in jest, partly because the social attitudes expressed there were jarred with what they were used in the "big city." Then you'll find the same in the UK with people who live their lives in London and then get exposed to attitudes in the north of England. I'm not immune to the reality that the capital of a nation tends to be socially ahead of the rest.
Animavore wrote:I'm With Stupid wrote:Animavore wrote:The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.
Yeah, but surely the fact that you haven't been given a referendum and politicians don't feel that they can just go ahead and do it is testament to the power the church still holds in Irish politics? I wouldn't even say the Catholic church has no relevance in UK politics, never mind Irish. The Catholic church still runs 90% of your primary schools ffs, and a good number of the rest are protestant. It's obviously getting better, but there's a long way to go.
I'm not sure why politicians won't go ahead and do it. And the Catholic church running our schools doesn't mean anything much. They still have to go by the governement standards for education. They can't teach that homosexuality is wrong, or that sex outside of marriage or contraception is wrong, and have to give equal time to all religions. They're Catholic schools in name only.
Animavore wrote:
The Church have almost no relevance to today's society.
I'm With Stupid wrote:Animavore wrote:The Church have almost no relevance to today's society. They are dying out and their role is mostly ceremonial now. When the abortion referendum came out in the 90s the 'No' vote just barely won. The next time, and there are calls for another referendum, they won't win.
Yeah, but surely the fact that you haven't been given a referendum and politicians don't feel that they can just go ahead and do it is testament to the power the church still holds in Irish politics? I wouldn't even say the Catholic church has no relevance in UK politics, never mind Irish. The Catholic church still runs 90% of your primary schools ffs, and a good number of the rest are protestant. It's obviously getting better, but there's a long way to go.
I'm With Stupid wrote:I got my statistics from this website, where it quotes one man claiming that religion frequently invades other subjects, to even if you opt out of religious bullshit for your children, you still have it frequently popping up in other classes. Obviously it would vary from school to school. I also went to a Catholic school where it really was a professionally run outfit that didn't ram religion down your throat. But it wouldn't surprise me if all Catholic schools aren't equal.
The number of people describing themselves as “not religious” jumped by 44 percent between the 2006 census and the most recent count in 2011. A 2010 Irish Times poll found that 61 percent of respondents believed the Catholic Church should give up control of schools. Meanwhile, attendance at Mass in Ireland has plummeted.
Even the Catholic Schools Partnership, an association representing Catholic schools in Ireland, agreed there is a problem.
I'm With Stupid wrote:Where would be the evidence for this in the UK? If you look at voting patterns, you'll find that people in the North of England, Scotland and Wales typically vote for more socially progressive parties than large areas of London.
I'm With Stupid wrote: I'd agree that London is more progressive than a lot of the areas immediately surrounding it, but the North of England generally? I can't see any reason to think that. I see evidence that cities are a bit more progressive than rural areas, but not that the capital city is in any way special (although it's probably true that the economic hub of any country has more foreign residents, and therefore enjoys more progressive attitudes towards foreigners).
Scot Dutchy wrote:Democracy is something that is achieved. That has happened in Ireland not in the UK.
Briton wrote:Ireland is more democratic than the UK but the UK is a democracy. Your latest poke at the UK is irrelevant as well as inaccurate.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
When has democracy alighted on British soil? FPTP is not democracy by any definition.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Ireland's system is far more democratic. They the STV. Which does give more equal weight to each vote.
Briton wrote:Scot Dutchy wrote:
When has democracy alighted on British soil? FPTP is not democracy by any definition.
So nobody defines the UK as a democracy? What utter crap.Scot Dutchy wrote:
Ireland's system is far more democratic. They the STV. Which does give more equal weight to each vote.
So fucking what? I've already said (twice) Ireland is more democratic than the UK; not that has anything to do with my initial post anyway. You are vehemently anti-British, I get it; just leave me out of your obsessive silliness.
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