Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

Anthropology, Economics, History, Sociology etc.

Moderators: kiore, The_Metatron, Blip

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#81  Postby THWOTH » Apr 17, 2018 3:51 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
Alan B wrote:11 billion living 'sustainably'?
Define 'sustainably'.

Does this include reducing methane and carbon dioxide producing animal and vegetable food sources that contribute to AGW?
(Not forgetting that these 11 billion will also contribute methane and carbon dioxide as bodily functions...).

If so, what will these 11 billions live on?

Sure, it's almost impossible for one person to live 'sustainably' let alone 11bn. But surely one person can live more sustainably than they currently do by making small changes and some different choices? Isn't the point to understand the issues and make a move towards greater levels of sustainable living rather than baulking at the seemingly overwhelming prospect of 11bn people somehow living totally sustainable lives? If we accept that our way of life is unsustainable in the long run shouldn't we be trying to do something about that now?


Do you know what most people say? You first!

I'm childless. That's like saying "I gave at the office."

I'm fucking childless. I don't own a fucking automobile. I'm no globetrotter, like macdoc is. How difficult is all that to comprehend? You want me to take care of macdoc's kids? Good fucking luck with that.

I buy my carrots loose rather than in a plastic bag, so we can all do our bit if/when we have the ability to choose eh? I don't get to choose how far the carrots have travelled to get to the store of course, or what proportion of the energy I use when cooking them was fetched up out of the ground, for that I have to ask someone else to make a choice on my behalf.

I know someone who makes their own soap and deodorant, which all things considered probably makes me some kind of an expert.
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 37116
Age: 56

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#82  Postby The_Metatron » Apr 17, 2018 4:06 pm

We make our own deodorant. Cornstarch, baking soda, coconut oil in a ratio of 2:2:1 by volume. You could add essential oil of something to smell like something, but we don’t bother. The coconut oil has just the right melting point to keep the mixture solid until it meets body temperature. I re-use an Old Spice stick deodorant container to dispense it. One refill costs me about ten cents.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
I AM Skepdickus!

Check out Hack's blog, too. He writes good.
User avatar
The_Metatron
Moderator
 
Name: Jesse
Posts: 21240
Age: 58
Male

Country: United States
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#83  Postby Cito di Pense » Apr 17, 2018 4:11 pm

The_Metatron wrote:We make our own deodorant.


Caring whether or not I stink is low on my list. The stink is symbolic.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
User avatar
Cito di Pense
 
Name: Al Forno, LLD,LDL,PPM
Posts: 29564
Age: 23
Male

Country: The Heartland
Mongolia (mn)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#84  Postby THWOTH » Apr 17, 2018 4:30 pm

I've often wondered what's essential about essential oils?
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
Michel de Montaigne, Essais, 1580
User avatar
THWOTH
RS Donator
 
Name: Penrose
Posts: 37116
Age: 56

Country: Untied Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#85  Postby felltoearth » Apr 17, 2018 7:00 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
felltoearth wrote:
Alan B wrote:11 billion living 'sustainably'?
Define 'sustainably'.

Clean water in, clean water out is an example.
Balanced use of renewable resources.
etc


Fine. Who's going to put in the necessary work, and who's going to pay for it?

I don't give much of a fuck if you have a conceptual definition of sustainable. Haven't you heard about "Tragedy of the Commons"?

This is the main problem with moralism. Simply knowing the right thing to do is not enough.


One way or another someone will pay. Someone always does.
"Walla Walla Bonga!" — Witticism
User avatar
felltoearth
 
Posts: 14291
Age: 54

Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#86  Postby Macdoc » Apr 17, 2018 7:40 pm

Of course ....we pay to stay alive and build civilizations to make it easier....we need to and are making it a sustainable civilization.
EVs and stopping coal are a big step forward to stop degrading the atmosphere.

Sustainable food and ocean catch another.

Education will generally result in declining rates of population growth so easing strain on resources.

Hydrology control is perhaps the biggest challenge with climate change ....too much or too little water.
We do need cost effective desalination and better control of natural waterways to both preserve their health ( wild salmon populations ) and make use of the water resources efficiently.
Tricky balance.

This is a war for the future health of the biome and humans and war level resources need to be supplied. Standing up to fossil fuel polluters is a big step, making them pay for part of the damage will help.

Ocean resource management outside national boundaries are a huge challenge... from preventing trawlers ruining vital inshore fisheries on the African coasts to management of the Arctic and Antarctic fisheries. We fucking playing with extinction if we really fuck over the oceans.

The Permian Extinction—When Life Nearly Came to an End
This mass extinction almost ended life on Earth as we know it.


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... ?beta=true
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17240
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#87  Postby Hermit » Apr 18, 2018 1:33 am

Alan B wrote:I missed a point here. At the moment we still have a net positive birth-rate. We need to aim for a net negative birth-rate. Although in Hermits link it shows a decline in the net birth-rate, the population is still increasing...

Thwoth provided a link to a video in this post where the temporary increase despite lowered fertility rates is explained. I suggest you have a look at it. Alternatively, you could just look up the population-lag effect in the Wikipedia. While there, you may also discover that globally the fertility rates average out at 2.49 while 2.33 is required for zero long term population growth. Considering the rates having dropped by just over 2.5 in the past five decades, another drop of 0.16 (or below) is neither daunting nor unlikely.

That said, no matter what this planet's future human population level will turnout to be, huge changes are necessary to make our existence sustainable. Ever mindful of our limited ability to predict the future (see The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894, for instance), I am not going to attempt to draw a picture of how our existence might look like in 50, let alone 100 years, except to say that the days of privately owned transport powered by internal reciprocal combustion engines are just about over.
God is the mysterious veil under which we hide our ignorance of the cause. - Léo Errera


God created the universe
God just exists
User avatar
Hermit
 
Name: Cantankerous grump
Posts: 4657
Age: 68
Male

Print view this post

Re: Human Over Population. How to Stem and Reduce.

#88  Postby Macdoc » Apr 18, 2018 2:37 am

ICE engines are pretty much dead now as is coal power but it's got a long tail. :(

This is a big factor

Image

and this ideally is where we want the world trending

Image

since so many urban centres are on the ocean, rising sea levels offer the opportunity for renewal at a much higher density.

This kind of renewal allows much higher efficiency structures.

Image

Arcology, the Future of Sustainability
February 14, 2016 by szp5463 Leave a Comment

Are there any large projects that are aimed at reducing water consumption?

crystalisland-fosterpartners

After realizing how much water it costs to just make a sandwich, I thought to myself “How can anything I do really make a difference”, and so I began to look to see if there were any large projects that were designed to severely cut back on water consumption. What I found is a type of architecture called ‘arcology’, a cross between architecture and ecology. The main principle of arcology is to reverse urban sprawl, which can be achieved by creating (ideally massive) communities and structures that are self-sustaining isolated from the outside world. Using compact agricultural methods, renewable energy, and new social policies, these societies can make large changes in sustainability.

The term arcology was originally coined by architect Paolo Soleri, who tried to create his own city in the Arizona desert. And although it is neither large nor luxurious, it is used as an educational institution to teach students about sustainability and arcology. Other designs range from massive structures to floating cities to forest cities. The ideals that unite these different designs revolve around sustainability, including efficient farming, lack of mass consumerism, bans on cars, and others seem to make arcology sound like the utopia of the future.


https://sites.psu.edu/futureoffood/2016 ... inability/
Travel photos > https://500px.com/macdoc/galleries
EO Wilson in On Human Nature wrote:
We are not compelled to believe in biological uniformity in order to affirm human freedom and dignity.
User avatar
Macdoc
 
Posts: 17240
Age: 73
Male

Country: Canada/Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to Social Sciences & Humanities

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest