I am Mixed Race - Other

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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#161  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2010 4:17 am

Tyrannical wrote:
Agrippina wrote:
Warren Dew wrote:
Agrippina wrote:What makes Hispanic different from Latino and Chicano? Why not simply Americans of Spanish descent?

It does include central and south American natives who have no Spanish blood, so they're not all of Spanish descent.


But if they're "Indians" i.e. pure aboriginal Americans, surely they're not "Latino."


They are. That's why I call Hispanic / Latino a social construct.

Black, White, Asian, Red, Mixed, what ever. If you are from the lands of the former Spanish Empire, you are Hispanic / Latino. Even if you don't speak a lick of Spanish. Usually, I'm sure there are exceptions.


:lol: I'm sure the people who are "pure Ameri-Indian" simply loved being called "Latinos." I know I would be pissed if someone called me Afrikaans! Hmm! classified by the predominant language of the region, that would make me "English" which I'm not. I'm an African of German descent, and I speak English, but 300+ years of my ancestors living in Africa makes me more African than European.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#162  Postby jparada » Apr 09, 2010 5:31 am

People from recognized Indigenous and Afro communities don't regard themselves as Latinos. As well, Filipinos are never called Latinos, but Asian, despite the Phillipines being part of "the former Spanish Empire". Latinos are only the people from the mainstream society on Hispanic American countries, irrespective of color or ancestry (which are not correlated in a one to one way, as anyone in acquaintance with a Mestizo family can check readily).
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#163  Postby Segundo » Apr 09, 2010 9:19 am

cursuswalker wrote:
Not 'mixed up', just 'mixed'

In that I have human ancestors from Africa, the Middle East, mainland Europe, Ireland AND Britain. Therefore, by definition, my current make up is a mixture of previous 'races' and one that has no name.

Hence 'Mixed Race-Other', which is what I put on all ethnic monitoring forms.



And your ancestors which preceded your African ancestors were from where?

Are you pure white and just being a little awkward? ;)
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#164  Postby cursuswalker » Apr 09, 2010 9:24 am

Segundo wrote:
cursuswalker wrote:
Not 'mixed up', just 'mixed'

In that I have human ancestors from Africa, the Middle East, mainland Europe, Ireland AND Britain. Therefore, by definition, my current make up is a mixture of previous 'races' and one that has no name.

Hence 'Mixed Race-Other', which is what I put on all ethnic monitoring forms.



And your ancestors which preceded your African ancestors were from where?


Asia I believe. But that is pre-human.

Are you pure white and just being a little awkward? ;)


No more awkward than a black person would be if they refused to tick a box called "negroid"
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#165  Postby Segundo » Apr 09, 2010 9:27 am

It is important to gather racial data cursuswalker. The motivation for collecting isn't necessarily "evil", immoral or dumb or whatever. It is useful data.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#166  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2010 9:28 am

Segundo wrote:It is important to gather racial data cursuswalker. The motivation for collecting isn't necessarily "evil", immoral or dumb or whatever. It is useful data.


Why?
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#167  Postby Segundo » Apr 09, 2010 9:31 am

Well why on earth do we fill out census forms in mind-numbing detail? Is that information useful for anything?
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#168  Postby cursuswalker » Apr 09, 2010 9:34 am

Segundo wrote:It is important to gather racial data cursuswalker. The motivation for collecting isn't necessarily "evil", immoral or dumb or whatever. It is useful data.


I agree that it is important to collect data on how a population define their race.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#169  Postby Tyrannical » Apr 09, 2010 9:36 am

Segundo wrote:Well why on earth do we fill out census forms in mind-numbing detail? Is that information useful for anything?


Well, the US was a country of immigrants, so I wouldn't consider it strange that they'd like to keep track of where people came from. Also, some immigration laws placed limits on the number of immigrants coming in from each country, based on the percentage that were previously here.
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Re: I am a mix of human subpopulations- Other

#170  Postby Macdoc » Apr 09, 2010 9:36 am

October 1, 2008...4:01 pm
Race As A Social Construct
Jump to Comments

As Ruth Frankenberg in her book The Social Construction of Whiteness: White Women, Race Matters argues, our daily lives are affected by race whether we are aware of it or not. We all see the world through a racial lens that colors our world black, white, Asian, Mexican, minority, or “other”. How we are seen and how we see others affects various domains of our lives and the lives of others; from the types of jobs we have, the amount of money we make, the kind of friends we make, the places we live, the foods we eat, the schools we go to, etc… The entire social structure we inhabit is affected by at least one social construction, race.


http://anthropology.net/2008/10/01/race ... construct/

The Problem, Simply Stated
Excerpted from The Race Myth: Why We Pretend Race Exists in America
By Joseph L. Graves Jr., Ph.D.

Preeminent evolutionary biologist Joseph Graves proves once and for all that it doesn't. Through accessible and compelling language, he makes the provocative argument that science cannot account for the radical categories used to classify people, and debunks ancient race-related fallacies that are still held as fact, from damaging medical profiles to misconceptions about sports. He explains why defining race according to skin tone or eye shape is woefully inaccurate, and how making assumptions based on these false categories regarding IQ, behavior, or predisposition to disease has devastating effects.

Demonstrating that racial distinctions are in fact social inventions, not biological truths, The Race Myth brings much-needed, sound science to one of America's most emotionally charged debates.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/5043.html

I agree with the premise that race is a social construct and the title of this post sucks :nono:

Race is a damaging meme that is meaningless as far as science goes and destructive socially.....EVERYONE is a mix of genetic subpopulations and cultural subpopulations. :coffee:
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#171  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2010 9:43 am

Segundo wrote:Well why on earth do we fill out census forms in mind-numbing detail? Is that information useful for anything?


Good question. It was fine as long as we weren't on databases around the world, surely all the government has to do is to analyse their birth and death data, and here were marriages are registered with the government they could use those too.

They can get a whole lot of other data from all the various organisations that have our details.

The only people who would fall off the grid would be those people who don't register their births and deaths and who don't have bank accounts or send their kids to school or collect government handouts. Who would that be, practically nobody. They're just to lazy to use computers the way they can be used so they rather waste our time with nonsense.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#172  Postby Segundo » Apr 09, 2010 9:43 am

Tyrannical wrote:
Segundo wrote:Well why on earth do we fill out census forms in mind-numbing detail? Is that information useful for anything?


Well, the US was a country of immigrants, so I wouldn't consider it strange that they'd like to keep track of where people came from. Also, some immigration laws placed limits on the number of immigrants coming in from each country, based on the percentage that were previously here.


That's very interesting.

I was thinking more along the lines of the following: If a social class is growing a government would "like to know" so that appropriate provisions can be made. The provisions which need to be made for middles-class growth are different to those which need to be made for growth of the working-class population. The types of economic sectors which need enlarging will be different; the number of prisons which need to be built will be greater if the working-class grows than if the middle-class grows; the types of schools or educational/training programs which need enlarging will differ. See what I am saying?
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#173  Postby Agrippina » Apr 09, 2010 9:45 am

Segundo wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:
Segundo wrote:Well why on earth do we fill out census forms in mind-numbing detail? Is that information useful for anything?


Well, the US was a country of immigrants, so I wouldn't consider it strange that they'd like to keep track of where people came from. Also, some immigration laws placed limits on the number of immigrants coming in from each country, based on the percentage that were previously here.


That's very interesting.

I was thinking more along the lines of the following: If a social class is growing a government would "like to know" so that appropriate provisions can be made. The provisions which need to be made for middles-class growth are different to those which need to be made for growth of the working-class population. The types of economic sectors which need enlarging will be different; the number of prisons which need to be built will be greater if the working-class grows than if the middle-class grows; the types of schools or educational/training programs which need enlarging will differ. See what I am saying?


But all of that information can be obtained from databases.
They have records of every single member of the population and their origins, all they have to do is to collect the information from their records, they won't do it because its too much work, it's a lot easier to waste taxpayers' money collecting the information from them.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#174  Postby cursuswalker » Apr 09, 2010 9:49 am

The fact that the information is asked for time after time indicates that the answer can change in the light of new information.

In my case I changed my answer after reading 'The Ancestors Tale'.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#175  Postby Tyrannical » Apr 09, 2010 9:50 am

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/mailbag/race-word-jettison-comment-2009.html

Mailbag wrote:I believe this problem with the word "race" which biologists have needs to
be handled as a communication problem. The way that biologists use the term
is, like the word "species" Darwinian, but that is not what "normal" people
mean. The flexible concept of an interbreeding population is fine and clear
to me, but it is not what most people think of when they read about
biologists proving the existence of races and species.


John Hawks wrote:I think this is what prompted most anthropologists to jettison the word. But then there are two strains in anthropology that are hard to reconcile with each other. One strain rejects the word "race" with its unpleasant social correlates, but pretty much retains the nineteenth-century concept. Another strain rejects the concept of race entirely.

This of course becomes confusing because we can see statements like "anthropologists all agree there's no such thing as race," but in fact some really do believe there are no such groups, while others believe in such groups for all intents and purposes but refer to them only with Orwellian terms!

I don't have any answer, really, but you're certainly correct that it's a public communication nightmare. In my classes, I estimate half the students just assume that anthropologists are lying about race.


Race exits, we just like to call it something else :lol:
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#176  Postby Segundo » Apr 09, 2010 9:56 am

I read a paper a while back by an anthropologist who "rejected the race concept". I'll paraphrase one of the reviewers responses: Some of us anthropologists consider ourselves natural scientists while the rest are more political scientists than natural scientists. He went on to say that they call races "continental populations". All in all it sounded as though the reviewer was tired with the politics of anthropology.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#177  Postby Morien » Apr 09, 2010 12:00 pm

Saim wrote:
Morien wrote:
I do it all the time; i.e., categorize people by their ethnicity but also treat them as individuals.



Sooo what is it you do all the time? Categorize them by race or ethnicity? Do you have scientifically valid definitions of either? Or - as you seem to suggest - are they interchangeable?

And when you categorize them by ethnicity, what purpose does it serve, if not to assign them some predetermined characteristics...? I think you'll find that when you do so, you are treating the person as part of a group; and, subliminally if nothing else, are expecting certain characteristics to emerge to confirm what you EXPECT from this ethnicity...If you don't, then there's absolutely no reason for the characterisation in the first place....

Well, I don't. It's the same with people's religions, hair colors, national origins, etc... I don't "expect" anything from any given ethnicity.


Asking someone about their religion is quite different from asking them about their 'national origins' or their hair colour, I'd suggest....Some things we very little control over (save the peroxide/dye bottle with regular frequency), others are of total choice and open to change....

If you don't 'expect' anything, one wonders why you'd make the point of making the classification in the first place... :eh:
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Re: I am a mix of human subpopulations- Other

#178  Postby Morien » Apr 09, 2010 12:02 pm

Macdoc wrote:
October 1, 2008...4:01 pm
Race As A Social Construct
Jump to Comments

As Ruth Frankenberg in her book The Social Construction of Whiteness: White Women, Race Matters argues, our daily lives are affected by race whether we are aware of it or not. We all see the world through a racial lens that colors our world black, white, Asian, Mexican, minority, or “other”. How we are seen and how we see others affects various domains of our lives and the lives of others; from the types of jobs we have, the amount of money we make, the kind of friends we make, the places we live, the foods we eat, the schools we go to, etc… The entire social structure we inhabit is affected by at least one social construction, race.


http://anthropology.net/2008/10/01/race ... construct/

The Problem, Simply Stated
Excerpted from The Race Myth: Why We Pretend Race Exists in America
By Joseph L. Graves Jr., Ph.D.

Preeminent evolutionary biologist Joseph Graves proves once and for all that it doesn't. Through accessible and compelling language, he makes the provocative argument that science cannot account for the radical categories used to classify people, and debunks ancient race-related fallacies that are still held as fact, from damaging medical profiles to misconceptions about sports. He explains why defining race according to skin tone or eye shape is woefully inaccurate, and how making assumptions based on these false categories regarding IQ, behavior, or predisposition to disease has devastating effects.

Demonstrating that racial distinctions are in fact social inventions, not biological truths, The Race Myth brings much-needed, sound science to one of America's most emotionally charged debates.

http://www.enotalone.com/article/5043.html

I agree with the premise that race is a social construct and the title of this post sucks :nono:

Race is a damaging meme that is meaningless as far as science goes and destructive socially.....EVERYONE is a mix of genetic subpopulations and cultural subpopulations. :coffee:




:clap: :clap:
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#179  Postby Warren Dew » Apr 10, 2010 3:10 am

Tyrannical wrote:Well, the US was a country of immigrants, so I wouldn't consider it strange that they'd like to keep track of where people came from.

We're also supposed to be a "melting pot", so once you're here it shouldn't matter where you came from.

Also, some immigration laws placed limits on the number of immigrants coming in from each country, based on the percentage that were previously here.

Thankfully, those racist laws are long since gone. They're an excellent example of how race information held by the government tends to be misused, though.
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Re: I am Mixed Race - Other

#180  Postby Tyrannical » Apr 10, 2010 3:50 am

We're also supposed to be a "melting pot", so once you're here it shouldn't matter where you came from.


The melting pot analogy historically only referred to Whites. By the time significant numbers of non-White immigrants were coming into the US by the 1970's, I believe the multi-cultural "Salad Bowl" replaced the melting pot concept.
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