tuco wrote:How would the 12-year-old look like, as in: if she had women traits or not, is significant not age I would guess. Also as soon as an individual is biologically fit to reproduce, reproduction is possible.
btw natural? Yes its natural. What is not natural? Semantics.
btw I would not agree that is normal to kill or hurt those who we dislike. I would say its normal to hurt or kill those in competition with us for various resources.
igorfrankensteen wrote: It is not biologically logical, to have sexual attraction specifically to beings who cannot bear children. Nor is it common. So it is not "natural," in the sense you mean.
ScholasticSpastic wrote:igorfrankensteen wrote: It is not biologically logical, to have sexual attraction specifically to beings who cannot bear children. Nor is it common. So it is not "natural," in the sense you mean.
While I understand what you are trying to say, homosexuality appears to be quite natural, which is to say that we can find a lot of examples of it in other species of animals, including entire species of only one sex that have sex with each other in order to stimulate parthenogenesis. But homosexuality is sexual attraction specifically to beings who cannot bear children.
Arcade Fire wrote:Afterlife. I think I saw what happens next. It was just a glimpse of you like looking through a window or a shallow sea. Could you see me?
zoon wrote:Most of us would be capable of murder if there were no social stigma whatsoever. Social stigma is a natural instinct for us; it's one of the mechanisms that enable human societies to operate effectively, and it tends to be especially strong where harm is caused to the other person. 12 year old girls are usually too young to have children safely, so any society which takes enough interest in the welfare of their children to raise girls to the age of 12 is likely to attach stigma to underage sex. History has a tendency to be about the top levels of society, where marriage was often used for political alliances, and the political usefulness of marrying children might override their safety (I'm guessing).
I'm With Stupid wrote:When you ask is it natural, I assume what you're getting at is whether it's a function that has a clear evolutionary reason and advantage, and whether it applies to everyone. I would suggest that finding post-pubescent girls attractive (which isn't to say you necessarily find them as attractive as a 25 year old), even if they are not capable of reliably delivering a baby is relatively universal amongst heterosexual men, although I'd be interested to see if anyone's done an actual study on this. I've seen studies where they're able to measure sexual attraction, so it presumably wouldn't be too difficult to use the same procedure to work out the average age that men start to find girls attractive. Although it might not be a popular answer, hence why it hasn't been done, or if it has, hasn't been widely publicized. Anyway in the sense I'd argue it's normal. Actual paedophilia of finding pre-pubescent children attractive would seem to be more of a disorder in the traditional sense, that being that there's no obvious evolutionary advantage to such an urge existing and it only affects a tiny minority of people (to my knowledge).
Beatsong wrote:Less flippantly:
The problem with hypotheticals like this is that they require suspending so many assumptions about the real world, that any conclusions drawn from them lose their force and sense when trying to apply them to that world.
In terms of this one, I'd want to know what is actually meant by the lack of social stigma. The social stigma around having sex with underage girls is ultimately based on awareness that doing so can be directly or indirectly harmful to them. So is the claim that "most men would have sex with a 12 year old if there were no social stigma because sex with girls of that age wasn't in any way harmful"? Or that "most men would have sex with a 12 year old girl if there were no social stigma because the act still caused pain and suffering, but society didn't care about the pain and suffering of 12 year old girls?
If it's the first, then I'd reckon the answer's probably yes (12 isn't that young; there are European countries even today where the age of consent is 14, and we know that sexual attraction is hugely adaptable to situation. If a tough guy gang leader can have sex with men just because he happens to find himself in prison, who knows?). But the obvious question arising from it is: why shouldn't he?
If it's the second, then you're talking about a society in which the whole foundation of morality and ethics is so different from ours that it's impossible to make sense of the question.
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