by Thommo wrote:
I did. And in fact I did not appeal to incredulity. Further given that you're the one making a claim and an incredibly ambitious and lofty claim at that I don't even need incredulity to dismiss what you say, since you're the one with burden of proof. I was willing to enter a bit of give and take, but this kind of banal rules lawyering and shifting of that burden of proof is rapidly eroding any charity I was willing to grant.TMB wrote:Thommo wrote: Almost no human steals to survive, rather than "all" of them. Almost all human stealing is not for survival. Many humans do not steal. This explanation literally explains nothing and the ad hoc prediction aspect is incorrect anyway.
I am not sure exactly what you are proposing, that stealing does not happen in order to survive? So does this mean that people do not steal? Does this mean that all people can acquire the resources they need to survive by honest means? Does it mean that those who would die unless they stole simply choose to die rather than steal?
No, it means none of those things. But again you're the one claiming to be able to explain all human behaviours, so explain away.TMB wrote:The world food program suggest that around 800 million people are unable to get enough to eat and lack of food causes nearly half of deaths of children under 5. There are plenty of references in Google that provide similar stats. The most basic of human needs means if someone has an option to steal rather than die, they will steal.
That's your assertion, now all you need to do is show it's true in every case. So, how many people stole rather than dying last year? How many people died rather than stealing last year? How do you intend to demonstrate any of this?TMB wrote:People strive for control because with greater control survival is more assured, and since control is a relative resource in a competitive environment, it explains why people compete in every environment and I would say that stealing along with a range of dishonesties happens at every level as people look for gain of every kind. Politicians give us a transparent example of how people will be dishonest in order to stay in ‘power’, and they appear mostly to have enough to eat.
If you imagine that most people do not steal then I am not sure what parallel universe you live in. Human history is full of humans competing for control of land and other possessions. We might consider that there is an amnesty in modern times, but the colonisation of land is technically stealing, and while our modern morals are different to those over the last few hundred years, most people are descended from ill gotten appropriation of land. Every continent has a history of land appropriation by the powerful over the weak.
If you just play humpty dumpty with the word "steal" then you aren't saying much. Certainly nothing interesting. It is readily apparent that most people alive today who owned land purchased rather than stole it, let alone that literally all of them did not. Do you own a home? If so, did you buy it, or steal it? What about your parents, brothers and sisters or other family - how many of them stole rather than purchased their homes?TMB wrote:To return to modern times, perhaps you have never lived in a country with extreme poverty, if not, let me assure you that stealing is ubiquitous at every level, from the corrupt politicians all the way down to the very poorest.
Software piracy is theft of intellectual property rights and some figures on the internet suggest that many if not most people are guilty of doing this around the world. They estimate that cheating the tax system, costs the US around $500 billion every year and the black market in the US is over $1 trillion each year (ie, this means more stealing). Thanks goodness you assure me that many humans do NOT steal, just imagine what these figures would be if they did!!!!
Sure, just imagine that you're right, don't provide evidence. That's completely rational!
Are you aware that those same companies make more than $500 billion a year from customers who pay instead of stealing? Incredible, right?
Ok, tell me how to increase it as well, you're the one claiming to have explained all human behaviour. You seem to have confused the fact that I do have a moral preference with what I said depending upon it, in order to avoid addressing the point.
This last post has gotten emotional and actively irrational, so unless you settle down a bit, I am not going to play with you any more.
