The psychology of the troll?

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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#61  Postby Trenton » Jan 26, 2013 9:54 pm

Spearthrower wrote:Only partially connected, but I remember reading this many, many years ago when I first started using t'net.

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Yeah that was great but it seems to have become a little old; trolls are (at least some anyway) more sophisticated than they were.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#62  Postby Fallible » Jan 26, 2013 10:58 pm

MacIver wrote:I assume as with most voluntary repeated behaviour (good or bad) that at it's source trolling involves reward of actions by a pleasant chemical release in the brain. That's why they do it so much.

Also, the internet is something completely knew to the human psyche. Before people couldn't act like dicks all the time because they'd get thrown out of the tribe. The net allows them to ask like dicks, get the corresponding physiological reward when they get a rise out of someone else, and not have it affect their real lives.

As your in the UK Trenton and if you haven't seen it already BBC 3 did a fairly interesting documentary about Kevin Bacon (the ex-Blue Peter presenter not the American actor) tracking down his own internet trolls and talking to victims of excessive trolling that might be worth finding on iPlayer.


That's Richard Bacon by the way.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#63  Postby CookieJon » Jan 26, 2013 11:11 pm

FYI, SBS' "Insight" did a programme on internet trolls a short while back. Here it is...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoniS-S6KCc[/youtube]
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#64  Postby Trenton » Jan 27, 2013 8:06 pm

The first troll was I think justified, trolling as a form of protest against injustice, is just an extension of your right to protest, by any means that affect a large corporate body, or also those who are morally dubious themselves and are for the most part unpopular for their views which are basically bigoted. This sort of troll though seldom exists on forums and when they do their life expectancy is basically zero. I would argue that they aren't really trolls, more protesters, it's hard to see sincere protesting against obvious injustice as trolling, unless its form becomes bullying or in any way illegal. He strayed onto unethical grounds later when he tried to justify abusing people but his initial comments were warranted.

The second guy is on more difficult ground, there are probably better ways to deal with people who are unhelpful. Being an ass to expose an ass is if not a tautology, at least fairly morally unjustifiable, unless, it is done so well that there is no affect on a forums function.

I agree with the idea that it is difficult to categorise, trolls as I said are no longer so predictable, they have evolved. And some trolling is justifiable, lets take a forum based example that is completely hypothetical: never happened to me I hasten to add - where a mod is clearly targeting one user beyond the extent of his actions, then it seems to me if reporting and dialogue has broken down you have little outlet to protest. So since you are damned if you do and damned if you don't, it is viable to attack a person who is abusing his powers, after all what have you got to lose? Your posting privileges? Well that's going to happen sooner or later anyway, as you are being unfairly targeted, often en masse by the moderator and those who tend to follow them around mired up their ass (we all know there are people like this, if the mod is justified there is no issue with this, although it does make you feel somewhat saddened that some people need to leech on to a person in a position of power, meh whatever makes you happy). ;)

I'll watch the rest later when I have more time. :)
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#65  Postby NilsGLindgren » Jan 27, 2013 8:11 pm

Trenton wrote:[*]
NilsGLindgren wrote:So far I have not received a warning, only, Metatron has told me not to call younger males (almost all of them :sigh:) "my dear boy" because that could be seen as inflammatory.


The fact that you didn't is down to some people not giving that much of a fuck. Hell if you never received a warning you are dead inside. ;)

No I'm only here for shit and giggles, and the occasional game of MC. My dream is seeing the Mornington Crescent thread closed down because of "several reports". If nobody gives a fuck, well, watch me not caring.



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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#66  Postby Trenton » Jan 27, 2013 8:15 pm

NilsGLindgren wrote:
Trenton wrote:[*]
NilsGLindgren wrote:So far I have not received a warning, only, Metatron has told me not to call younger males (almost all of them :sigh:) "my dear boy" because that could be seen as inflammatory.


The fact that you didn't is down to some people not giving that much of a fuck. Hell if you never received a warning you are dead inside. ;)

No I'm only here for shit and giggles, and the occasional game of MC. My dream is seeing the Mornington Crescent thread closed down because of "several reports". If nobody gives a fuck, well, watch me not caring.



Wanna see me do it again?


:grin:
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#67  Postby NilsGLindgren » Jan 27, 2013 8:35 pm

My dear boy, I think you understand.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#68  Postby Trenton » Jan 27, 2013 8:38 pm

NilsGLindgren wrote:My dear boy, I think you understand.


Indubitably dear chap. :)

Anyone who thinks saying dear boy is offensive should either get out more or watch more old British movies. Or both, sigh*. Christ it's a cultural thing. ;)
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#69  Postby NilsGLindgren » Jan 27, 2013 8:48 pm

What if I did itwith an Oxonian drawl? However, I see the way guys like Cali, Hack, Goldenmane, and Paula (strictly speaking, Paula is of course not a guy) express themselves, I think there is the option of the understatement. I mean, go figure, it is intercourse this and head inserted in unlikely crevices that, these opinions are extricated from this or that part of your body (in fact, the same where the head is already inserted) - well, you can't top it, really, can you? So I try for the soft sell. Dear me, quite so, rather, yes.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#70  Postby The_Piper » Jan 27, 2013 10:34 pm

He said intercourse. :tehe: /butthead-troll
when the guy saying my dear boy is 25, it's absolutely condescending. When they guy walks with a smacking cane, not so much. But since Nils has no age given, I think it's a bit uppity. Smack away. :mrgreen:
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#71  Postby Trenton » Jan 27, 2013 10:38 pm

The_Piper wrote:He said intercourse. :tehe: /butthead-troll
when the guy saying my dear boy is 25, it's absolutely condescending. When they guy walks with a smacking cane, not so much. But since Nils has no age given, I think it's a bit uppity. Smack away. :mrgreen:


"Math! Math, my dear boy, is but the lesbian sister of Biology."

Peter Griffin: Family Guy.

"My dear boy, forget about the motivation. Just say the lines and don't trip over the furniture."

Said to an actor who was not a boy, by Noel Coward.

"Stories have changed, my dear boy."

Erin Morgenstern, The Night Circus.

"My dear boy, if God had intended for us to walk, he wouldn't have invented roller skates." Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl.

He was referring to a boy but he need not have been. ;)

It's just a phrase it does not mean someone is being condescending. it might but per se it does not. it also can be said both to a younger person or an older one without it being literally construed as somewhat ironic since it is not meant literally.

American culture is based on European culture, which in turn is based somewhat after the Renaissance on Greco-Roman culture, which was in turn based on a diverse set of cultures in and around Southern Europe. Try and remember that the most influential cultures in history, may or may not have idioms or turns of phrases that people outside of that culture do not get, and take offence at despite careful explanation to the contrary. If you are offended by my dear boy, you are ignorant of that cultural reference, I hope you don't compound it by then being upset at it after you know it's meaning. My dear boy that would be far from congenial.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#72  Postby kennyc » Jan 27, 2013 11:52 pm

Today is Lewis Carroll's birthday.

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!"

— Lewis Carroll
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#73  Postby Trenton » Jan 28, 2013 1:08 am

kennyc wrote:Today is Lewis Carroll's birthday.

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!"

— Lewis Carroll


I hardly think Lewis Carol is a fitting subject for this forum, do you know what he did! My dear boy it would make and egg blanche!
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#74  Postby Trenton » Jan 28, 2013 1:10 am

Ok all joking aside, trolls are not all idiots. I know took me a while to work that out. Some of them can string together a sentence without using memes or mentioning something that is a troll.

For the Lulz a troll would give up his only begotten son, assuming he had moved out of his mothers basement and had met actual women or men of course.

It's hard not to joke about trolling isn't it and there's a reason for that I think, we just think they are comedic. I'd like to get inside a trolls head, not literally of course, but do a study on 1000 trolls to see where they are in the spectrum of "good" and "evil", I think they have always existed, but for some reason they were never so obvious as they are now...

What makes them tick, why do what you do? Were you a bully at school or bullied yourself, what made you a person who takes pleasure in winding people up? Why is there a need for that sort of attention, and most importantly how many cucumbers?
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#75  Postby kennyc » Jan 28, 2013 1:21 am

Trenton wrote:
kennyc wrote:Today is Lewis Carroll's birthday.

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!"

— Lewis Carroll


I hardly think Lewis Carol is a fitting subject for this forum, do you know what he did! My dear boy it would make and egg blanche!

Then you clearly dont know this forum. :P
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#76  Postby Trenton » Jan 28, 2013 1:30 am

kennyc wrote:
Trenton wrote:
kennyc wrote:Today is Lewis Carroll's birthday.

'I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast. There goes the shawl again!"

— Lewis Carroll


I hardly think Lewis Carol is a fitting subject for this forum, do you know what he did! My dear boy it would make and egg blanche!

Then you clearly dont know this forum. :P


Clearly! Do I want to know. ;)

Posts 40 is a huge give away btw. :P
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#77  Postby Reeve » Jan 28, 2013 3:07 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXcHV_zTNBs[/youtube]

Relevant video on this topic, I believe.... :coffee:
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#78  Postby Goldenmane » Jan 28, 2013 3:44 am

NilsGLindgren wrote:What if I did itwith an Oxonian drawl? However, I see the way guys like Cali, Hack, Goldenmane, and Paula (strictly speaking, Paula is of course not a guy) express themselves, I think there is the option of the understatement. I mean, go figure, it is intercourse this and head inserted in unlikely crevices that, these opinions are extricated from this or that part of your body (in fact, the same where the head is already inserted) - well, you can't top it, really, can you? So I try for the soft sell. Dear me, quite so, rather, yes.


I'm not sure whether to be insulted by that. :mrgreen:
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#79  Postby Loren Michael » Jan 28, 2013 3:52 am

nunnington wrote:I did actually write a short piece on trolls, after working as a mod, not on this forum, and I got sort of interested in them. There are obviously different types, for example, there are some really nutty ones, and some very bright ones.

However, I noticed the following:

1. narcissism - they want people to talk about them a lot.
2. incontinent - some of them spew their emotions around, but not all of them.
3. inflammatory - this is pretty standard, and is often the definition of trolling.
4. aggressive (connects with 3).
5. paranoid - some of them see bad people at work in every forum. Of course, they set it up also. They need enemies.
6. personalized - they often want to reduce the discussion to very personal terms and accusations.
7. rage and envy - seem quite common.

I think these factors are either/or; I mean you don't find them all at once.

As to why people troll, I guess they like manipulation, they may be sadistic, controlling, envious, full of negativity, and kind of cold. But I guess some do it for fun.


I think I take it for granted these days and don't notice it, but when I came here many if not most people (in the atheism/theism, current events boards that I observed and participated in initially) struck me as scoring high on numbers 3 - 7, with more than a few high-scoring 2s. I didn't (and don't) regard many people here as being particularly narcissistic, but there are a few.

I don't see these people as being trolls, generally. Trollishness to me is more a pattern of behavior that has the strong implication of being intended to provoke a response.

Most people tend to personalize when disagreements get heated, and rage isn't uncommon. Repeated heated interactions with a narrow range of individuals can evoke feelings of 5. I see this as normal (if undesirable) behavior. Trolls I tend to think of as being special cases.

I wouldn't identify myself as a troll, but if I wanted to provoke someone I wouldn't typically be particularly ragey or paranoid because those aren't things that tend to set me off.
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Re: The psychology of the troll?

#80  Postby Ainur » Jan 28, 2013 4:20 am

MacIver wrote:I assume as with most voluntary repeated behaviour (good or bad) that at it's source trolling involves reward of actions by a pleasant chemical release in the brain. That's why they do it so much.

Also, the internet is something completely knew to the human psyche. Before people couldn't act like dicks all the time because they'd get thrown out of the tribe. The net allows them to ask like dicks, get the corresponding physiological reward when they get a rise out of someone else, and not have it affect their real lives.

:this:

If we wish to peal away the psychological layers from each and every troll we would find eventually they all end up needing Emotional, or chemical redemption. The fix.

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