The Revenant Problem

And 32 alternatives to the trolley problem

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The Revenant Problem

#1  Postby Rumraket » Dec 31, 2017 2:39 pm



:cheers:
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#2  Postby felltoearth » Dec 31, 2017 5:48 pm

Bookmarking for later.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#3  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 31, 2017 7:00 pm

This looks to me like a screwed-up version of a real moral dilemma, that is not video-game oriented:
Would you sacrifice five strangers to save one person that you know?
It may be that something similar is covered somewhere, deep inside the video, but what I saw of it did not look promising. :(
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#4  Postby Animavore » Dec 31, 2017 7:35 pm

Pfft! All of these are only 'dilemmas' if you have functioning frontal lobes. Stick a screwdriver in there and these problems cease to exist.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#5  Postby DavidMcC » Dec 31, 2017 8:31 pm

What a load of b*ll*cks!!
Is this another attempt to wind me up, or something?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#6  Postby Animavore » Dec 31, 2017 9:12 pm

Wut?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#7  Postby Rumraket » Dec 31, 2017 10:15 pm

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Re: The Revenant Problem

#8  Postby Animavore » Dec 31, 2017 10:16 pm

Wow! A living Dali!
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#9  Postby TopCat » Jan 01, 2018 7:44 pm

Ok, this thread has been a bit wussy so far. Nice try RR, but let's make it a little more interesting.

So the single guy (or gal) is your best and closest mate, you've known him for years.

What's the maximum number of random strangers with whom you have no connection would you sacrifice to save your friend? If it helps, you can take it that (s)he doesn't know it's you that's saving him or her, so won't have a massive guilt trip afterwards.

This is about you.

So... a number?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#10  Postby The_Piper » Jan 01, 2018 8:31 pm

What if my only mates have been women?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#11  Postby Rumraket » Jan 01, 2018 8:33 pm

TopCat wrote:Ok, this thread has been a bit wussy so far. Nice try RR, but let's make it a little more interesting.

So the single guy (or gal) is your best and closest mate, you've known him for years.

What's the maximum number of random strangers with whom you have no connection would you sacrifice to save your friend? If it helps, you can take it that (s)he doesn't know it's you that's saving him or her, so won't have a massive guilt trip afterwards.

This is about you.

So... a number?

Literally no limit. I would personally stab them all while staring into their eyes. And feel good about it.

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Re: The Revenant Problem

#12  Postby Rumraket » Jan 01, 2018 8:49 pm

In all seriousness, given how you phrased the question I take it that it is a similar conondrum to the real trolley problem? As in I can only divert the train down a different track, not prevent it from killing someone altogether. And the choise before me is my friend vs some strangers the number of which I get to pick.

Then the answer is one, if I could only alter the direction of the train, not do anything to stop it, then I would be "okay" with having the ability to decide that I'd rather have my friend survive.

If it was my friend vs two random strangers, I would not make the choice to sacrifice two other people to save my friend.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#13  Postby Pebble » Jan 01, 2018 10:15 pm

Rumraket wrote:In all seriousness, given how you phrased the question I take it that it is a similar conondrum to the real trolley problem? As in I can only divert the train down a different track, not prevent it from killing someone altogether. And the choise before me is my friend vs some strangers the number of which I get to pick.

Then the answer is one, if I could only alter the direction of the train, not do anything to stop it, then I would be "okay" with having the ability to decide that I'd rather have my friend survive.

If it was my friend vs two random strangers, I would not make the choice to sacrifice two other people to save my friend.


Reverse the choice then. A train is heading toward your friend, you can divert it but only to a track where it kills 3 strangers - do you act?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#14  Postby Rumraket » Jan 01, 2018 11:04 pm

No.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#15  Postby Thommo » Jan 02, 2018 5:24 am

In real life, obviously you try and change the track while the trolley crosses the junction and derail it and save everyone, assuming you don't panic or run out of time looking for other options.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#16  Postby Animavore » Jan 02, 2018 9:54 am

The more I think about the trolley problem the less I'm convinced of the natural, immediate answer of switching the track.

Fate had decided for those people they would die. Fate is an abstraction, not an agent; and therefore not culpable. I am.

People might say I did a good thing by saving more people, but how is it fair on the family of the person you decided to deliberately kill?

We don't even know who these 5 people are. Some people are worth more and the one could've been the person who goes on to save many more through their research while the other 5 a bunch of junkies with not much left in them. The one could turn out to be Elon Musk researching clean transport. The 5 Trump and 4 close Republicans giving a speech on how they are shutting services and privatizing roads and reinvigorating the fossil industry. The one could be Kendrick Lamar and the 5 One Direction.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#17  Postby Spinozasgalt » Jan 02, 2018 10:00 am

MULTI-TRACK DRIFTING!!!
When the straight and narrow gets a little too straight, roll up the joint.
Or don't. Just follow your arrow wherever it points.

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Re: The Revenant Problem

#18  Postby TopCat » Jan 02, 2018 10:02 am

Rumraket wrote:If it was my friend vs two random strangers, I would not make the choice to sacrifice two other people to save my friend.

Interesting. I'm still working on a number, but my instinct is more than one. Maybe even quite a lot more than one.

I guess it boils down to how strong one's in-group bias is. Mine feels quite strong.
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#19  Postby GrahamH » Jan 02, 2018 11:55 am

TopCat wrote:
Rumraket wrote:If it was my friend vs two random strangers, I would not make the choice to sacrifice two other people to save my friend.

Interesting. I'm still working on a number, but my instinct is more than one. Maybe even quite a lot more than one.

I guess it boils down to how strong one's in-group bias is. Mine feels quite strong.


I would say it's less about bias or numbers than your willingness to commit murder
Why do you think that?
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Re: The Revenant Problem

#20  Postby felltoearth » Jan 02, 2018 12:11 pm

I hate Hell Gunners. Is there an option to kill them all?
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