The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

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The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#1  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 1:32 pm

....By being aware of the truth. When I say “the truth,” I’m not being one of those annoying people who says the word truth to mean some amorphous, mystical thing—I’m just referring to the actual facts of reality. The truth is a combination of what we know and what we don’t know—and gaining and maintaining awareness of both sides of this reality is the key to being wise.

Easy, right? We don’t have to know more than we know, we only have to be aware of what we know and what we don’t know. Truth is in plain sight, written on the whiteboard—we just have to look at the board and reflect upon it. There’s just this one thing—

What’s in Our Way?

The fog.

To understand the fog, let’s first be clear that we’re not here:

(Evolution is not directed or have an end point....it is an ongoing process....)

And this isn’t the situation:

(consciousness is not binary it is a spectrum)

This is:

Image

This is a really hard concept for humans to absorb, but it’s the starting place for growth. Declaring ourselves “conscious” allows us to call it a day and stop thinking about it. I like to think of it as a consciousness staircase.
.....
An ant is more conscious than a bacterium, a chicken more than an ant, a monkey more than a chicken, and a human more than a monkey. But what’s above us?

A) Definitely something, and B) Nothing we can understand better than a monkey can understand our world and how we think.

There’s no reason to think the staircase doesn’t extend upwards forever. The red alien a few steps above us on the staircase would see human consciousness the same way we see that of an orangutan—they might think we’re pretty impressive for an animal, but that of course we don’t actually begin to understand anything. Our most brilliant scientist would be outmatched by one of their toddlers.

To the green alien up there higher on the staircase, the red alien might seem as intelligent and conscious as a chicken seems to us. And when the green alien looks at us, it sees the simplest little pre-programmed ants.

We can’t conceive of what life higher on the staircase would be like, but absorbing the fact that higher stairs exist and trying to view ourselves from the perspective of one of those steps is the key mindset we need to be in for this exercise.

For now, let’s ignore those much higher steps and just focus on the step right above us—that light green step. A species on that step might see us like a three-year-old child—emerging into consciousness through a blur of simplicity and naiveté. Let’s imagine that a representative from that species was sent to observe humans and report back to his home planet about them—what would he think of the way we thought and behaved? What about us would impress him? What would make him cringe?

I think he’d very quickly see a conflict going on in the human mind.
....
The adrenaline-charged animals romping around our brain can take over our mind, clouding our thoughts, judgment, sense of self, and understanding of the world. The collective force of the animals is what I call “the fog.” The more the animals are running the show and making us deaf and blind to the thoughts and insights of the Higher Being, the thicker the fog is around our head, often so thick we can only see a few inches in front of our face:
Image



.....


http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/10/religion- ... gious.html
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#2  Postby igorfrankensteen » May 25, 2015 2:52 pm

That's it? Is this supposed to be a demonstration of someone generating this "fog" for themselves?

All Quotes and No Analysis or Commentary, makes Jack look for entertainment elsewhere. Me too.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#3  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 2:55 pm

Bye now.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#4  Postby scott1328 » May 25, 2015 4:24 pm

How does the author know that "consciousness" is a spectrum? It's a stupid unevidenced assertion.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#5  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 4:51 pm

scott1328 wrote:How does the author know that "consciousness" is a spectrum? It's a stupid unevidenced assertion.


It's clear from observation and the scientific studies of cognitive science. It is NOT an assertion, it is as clear as continental drift, evolution, or gravity.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#6  Postby scott1328 » May 25, 2015 7:20 pm

Bollocks. We only have knowledge of one conscious species. We suppose there might be others. No one knows what it is like to be a chimp, or a dog. We are in no position to make bare assertions about those species' "level" of consciousness. Whatever the fuck that might mean.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#7  Postby JohnnySkeptic » May 25, 2015 7:31 pm

After reading this article Id have a hard time ever trusting the author or the website that published it. Sounds like a lot of repeated speculative assertions without much rationalization. Also known as blather.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#8  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 8:21 pm

scott1328 wrote:Bollocks. We only have knowledge of one conscious species. We suppose there might be others. No one knows what it is like to be a chimp, or a dog. We are in no position to make bare assertions about those species' "level" of consciousness. Whatever the fuck that might mean.


Wrong. You clearly have no comprehension whatsoever of the field, the research, the science.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#9  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 8:22 pm

JohnnySkeptic wrote:After reading this article Id have a hard time ever trusting the author or the website that published it. Sounds like a lot of repeated speculative assertions without much rationalization. Also known as blather.


I think you are actually describing philosophy. :smug:
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#10  Postby scott1328 » May 25, 2015 8:53 pm

kennyc wrote:
scott1328 wrote:Bollocks. We only have knowledge of one conscious species. We suppose there might be others. No one knows what it is like to be a chimp, or a dog. We are in no position to make bare assertions about those species' "level" of consciousness. Whatever the fuck that might mean.


Wrong. You clearly have no comprehension whatsoever of the field, the research, the science.

When did you drink the kool-aid?
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#11  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 8:56 pm

Feel free to discuss the topic at hand any time.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#12  Postby chairman bill » May 25, 2015 9:01 pm

We're clearly not the only conscious animal on this planet, but to what degree our consciousness can be said to be greater or higher than other animals, is open to debate. One thing is clear though, whilst more advanced species (whether red or green aliens) might look down on our intellectual abilities, they won't be looking at us like we look at chickens.
“There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.” Terry Pratchett
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#13  Postby scott1328 » May 25, 2015 9:03 pm

Never was there a more wretched hive of truisms and deepities. We must be cautious.

I thought better of you, Kenny, than that new age bilge water of vapid, scientistic homily.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#14  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 9:17 pm

Any time Scott, any time. Science please.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#15  Postby scott1328 » May 25, 2015 9:28 pm

What is the topic, Kenny. That you're now offering cleansing to remove thetans?

Is Xenu at the top of the staircase?
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#16  Postby JohnnySkeptic » May 25, 2015 10:16 pm

kennyc wrote:
JohnnySkeptic wrote:After reading this article Id have a hard time ever trusting the author or the website that published it. Sounds like a lot of repeated speculative assertions without much rationalization. Also known as blather.


I think you are actually describing philosophy. :smug:


Yes, Im describing this guy's philosophy. He repeats his speculative assertions multiple times without any rationalizations. If there is evidence or reason to support his philosophy on consciousness he would present it (maybe you can help us here before getting defensive), but instead we get this "I call it the fog" business, which for a skeptic is a dead giveaway right at the beginning of the article.
Its amazing to me that people buy into this stuff just because of an article they read by a guy who clearly doesnt even understand science. Must make great click bait.

:roll: :coffee:
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#17  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 10:30 pm

Sorry it's not assertions, it's backed by science. If you can't see it, you and Scott should get together for a back-patting session.

For anyone else that wants to seriously discuss this, please chime in, these two on on my ignore plate for now unless they want to get serious. They appear to be lost in the fog with no ability to understand the science of consciousness, evolution, etc.
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#18  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 10:35 pm

chairman bill wrote:We're clearly not the only conscious animal on this planet, but to what degree our consciousness can be said to be greater or higher than other animals, is open to debate. One thing is clear though, whilst more advanced species (whether red or green aliens) might look down on our intellectual abilities, they won't be looking at us like we look at chickens.


True as far as consciousness. Consciousness is a spectrum all the way from the basic interaction forces of the universe to awareness in living molecules, cells, animals, plants.

As far as intellectual abilities (intelligence is not really the point of this discussion) of chickens, that's debatable -- what of ants, bees, wolves, apes? In any case I would ask as far as consciousness goes -- which is what the stairstep example is about - not intellectual ability -- would you say an amoeba or bacteria has the same level of awareness (consciousness) as a chicken? What about apes? Are you claiming all living things have the same level of consciousness?
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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#19  Postby JohnnySkeptic » May 25, 2015 11:41 pm

kennyc wrote:Sorry it's not assertions, it's backed by science.


You've asserted this several times now. Apparently its backed by science, but when someone challenges you on it you choose to avoid the subject, get defensive, and ignore them.

Where is the science kenny? Show us!
You can read up on all the research and theories about consciousness, but when someone wants to describe to you the "Truth about Consciousness" with some "fog" concept they came up with themselves just for the sake of writing an article about it - it should be immediately apparent that theyre a bullshit artist (and not a very good one).

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Re: The Truth about Consciousness at Wait but Why?

#20  Postby kennyc » May 25, 2015 11:55 pm

Last response to you johnny. It is not my job to teach you. If you had even a passing understanding of current cognitive science you would understand. Please feel free to whine along with Scott rather than learn. Bye.
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