Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

Anthropology, Economics, History, Sociology etc.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#41  Postby z8000783 » Jul 17, 2012 8:55 am

Varangian wrote:
z8000783 wrote:So is it OK for prostitutes who haven't been trafficked, to sell their bodies?

It reduces the risk of the slavery element, but there's still the question whether the prostitute have entered the trade voluntarily.

So if they have then you are OK with it then.

John
I don’t simply believe in miracles - I rely on them
z8000783
 
Name: WTF
Posts: 9333
Age: 67
Male

Country: Greece
Greece (gr)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#42  Postby Dogzilla » Jul 18, 2012 4:44 am

GWright wrote:It is very obvious why prostitution is banned - chiefly it is to prevent the exploitation of women, and so is therefore a noble and just cause.

Paying for the use of a woman's body - in the same way you would hire a car, or pay for a round of golf - is not a very pleasant business, when you think about it. It suggests that women are commodities, rather than people. That is an ugly and socially damaging way to present women.

Prostitution is often portrayed as harmless, or even empowering for women. (Pretty Woman, Belle de jour etc). But in reality it is far more often associated with exploitation, hopelessness, addiction and violence.

I think prostitution is degrading for both parties, and cannot understand how a man who genuinely respected women could use one like a commodity (even it was legal).


I also think it is degrading but but the degradation goes both ways. Isn't taking money from a man to engage in something that women are quite capable of enjoying themselves--multiple times, in fact--a form of exploitation?

Maybe I'm too cynical but I doubt preventing the exploitation of women is the reason for the ban on prostitution. I think it does have roots in Biblical morality and the belief that sex should only be for procreation. Prostitution would be banned because it's sexual activity that is not intended to make babies. Just like masturbation, homosexuality, adultery, or premarital sex. We haven't always had laws prohibiting all those activities but most western societies have tried to limit any type of sexual activity that won't make a baby.
Dogzilla
 
Posts: 6

Country: USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#43  Postby Sertorius » Aug 23, 2012 6:17 pm

There is an article on pretty much the same subject as this thread:
http://quintus-sertorius.blogspot.com/2 ... ution.html
I would really appreciate some intelligent comments.
Sertorius
 
Posts: 10

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#44  Postby swiatlo » Sep 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Prostitution is indirectly condemn by the Bible, because it is a form of sex outside marriage. Prostitutes are not beyond God's scope of forgiveness. In God's eyes none of us is any better than prostitutes.
It is a difficult subject for a socialist, totalitarian state that looks after their citizens. The state organize all sort of safety nets, unemployment benefits, health care, and then has to face problems of financing it. One of inevitable consequences of that is regulations of citizens life and modeling the way they conduct, just to cut cost of running. If prostitution was legal some women could be offered that position by a job center... it could be at least embarrassing.
User avatar
swiatlo
 
Name: Kacper Swiatlowski
Posts: 77

Country: UK
Poland (pl)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#45  Postby Sinde » Oct 31, 2012 3:20 am

Varangian wrote:
z8000783 wrote:So is it OK for prostitutes who haven't been trafficked, to sell their bodies?

It reduces the risk of the slavery element, but there's still the question whether the prostitute have entered the trade voluntarily.


As long as "voluntarily" means without the threat of physical violence and physical coercion is discouraged by law then the situation seems like any other. Financial necessity? We let people become miners, boxers, and work in other physical taxing areas because of financial problems. I don't see the difference. The coercion is the issue.
Sinde
 
Posts: 36

Country: Canada
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#46  Postby Shantanu » Nov 30, 2012 10:20 pm

The right to prostitute one's body is a basic human right, as a person must have the choice to do whatever she or he wishes to do with their only certain possession, that is their body. There is no justification whatsoever in 'morality' terms for banning prostitution. No other considerations come into it, God, breaking families, diseases, etc. The transaction of prostitution is an economic one that gives the prostitute a means to her or his survival in the best way that she/he can manage herself. It is no different from providing any other services like labour for employment. When it is consensual there is no slavery involved. The market forces determine the price level.

There are two concerns however
(a) that children under 16 are not unduly influenced into a career in prostitution by seeing others doing so; and
(b) it should be taxed as any other economic activity is.

For these reasons prostitution needs to be regulated for incorporation into a secular society in terms of brothels/red light districts. Society should be the pimp living off the earnings of the prostitute who goes into the trade voluntarily without coercion.

It is banned not simply because of Biblical morality but as a means to subjugate the woman from doing whatever she needs to to survive in decent level of comfort and to make her a 'pure' sex slave to her husband or partner, or to give him control over her life. That is not right.
Last edited by Shantanu on Nov 30, 2012 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#47  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 30, 2012 10:42 pm

Shantanu wrote:Society should be the pimp living off the earnings of the prostitute.

:eh:
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#48  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 30, 2012 10:46 pm

Shantanu wrote:It is banned not simply because of Biblical morality but as a means to subjugate the woman from doing whatever she needs to to survive in decent level of comfort and to make her a 'pure' sex slave to her husband or partner, or to give him control over her life. That is not right.

No, it isn't right because it's bollocks.

You seem to be saying here that the only choices are either prostitution or slavery for a woman.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#49  Postby Shantanu » Nov 30, 2012 10:56 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:It is banned not simply because of Biblical morality but as a means to subjugate the woman from doing whatever she needs to to survive in decent level of comfort and to make her a 'pure' sex slave to her husband or partner, or to give him control over her life. That is not right.

No, it isn't right because it's bollocks.

You seem to be saying here that the only choices are either prostitution or slavery for a woman.

I did not say that; she could get herself a decent job selling the rest of her body and mind but not her vagina if she is not so inclined and has the expertise or wherewithall. The choice is hers to make. No one else should impose a sexual morality on her, not even God/Jesus. However if she is married, her husband may have a say depending on whether she can prostitute her body depending what kind of marriage they share.
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#50  Postby Shantanu » Nov 30, 2012 10:58 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:Society should be the pimp living off the earnings of the prostitute.

:eh:

Well that is what the State does: taxes people to provide facilities. Everyone who can pay must pay towards the upkeep of Society, No?
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#51  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 30, 2012 11:10 pm

Shantanu wrote:she could get herself a decent job selling the rest of her body and mind but not her vagina if she is not so inclined

Gee, I'm glad you mentioned mind there. I was getting quite worried that you were obsessed with bodies and vaginas.

Tell me, are you the same Shantanu I read about a while back who thinks that no-one should have a go at Jimmy Savile because he is dead, and because what he did was considered to be more 'the norm' in that era?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#52  Postby tuco » Nov 30, 2012 11:17 pm

Personally, I am lead to believe they pay enough already so I would give them a tax break. There are also pragmatic reasons. Its not easy to track transactions and making sure it is could be complicated. Maybe some analysis would help, still do not think its an issue. Safety, for example, could be higher priority.
tuco
 
Posts: 15552

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#53  Postby Shantanu » Nov 30, 2012 11:34 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:she could get herself a decent job selling the rest of her body and mind but not her vagina if she is not so inclined

Gee, I'm glad you mentioned mind there. I was getting quite worried that you were obsessed with bodies and vaginas.

Tell me, are you the same Shantanu I read about a while back who thinks that no-one should have a go at Jimmy Savile because he is dead, and because what he did was considered to be more 'the norm' in that era?


What I did say was that all the individual allegations against Jimmy Saville should be examined in a Public Enquiry headed by a Judge who would take explicit details under cross examination from those who are now alleging that they were victims of his sexual predation crimes and other bystanders who were witnesses to the said offences under the prevailing law of the day. Do you disagree with this, preferring to 'have a go' at labeling Jimmy Savile guilty on heresay information?
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#54  Postby Doubtdispelled » Nov 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Shantanu wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:she could get herself a decent job selling the rest of her body and mind but not her vagina if she is not so inclined

Gee, I'm glad you mentioned mind there. I was getting quite worried that you were obsessed with bodies and vaginas.

Tell me, are you the same Shantanu I read about a while back who thinks that no-one should have a go at Jimmy Savile because he is dead, and because what he did was considered to be more 'the norm' in that era?


What I did say was that all the individual allegations against Jimmy Saville should be examined in a Public Enquiry headed by a Judge who would take explicit details under cross examination from those who are now alleging that they were victims of his sexual predation crimes and other bystanders who were witnesses to the said offences under the prevailing law of the day.
A simple 'yes, I am' would have sufficed. :roll:

Shantanu wrote:Do you disagree with this, preferring to 'have a go' at labeling Jimmy Savile guilty on heresay information?

Yes, I disagree with it, but not just on hearsay. I think the reactions of his immediate surviving family members are enough for most people. You know, those who took money from him in return for keeping their mouths shut? The ones who had his monument taken down, broken up, and taken to a tip before an outraged public could do so? The ones who are or have been talking about removing his body from its resting place to prevent desecration?

Yeah, they are the ones I prefer to listen to.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#55  Postby Wizofoz » Dec 01, 2012 8:06 am

Must say, I agree with Shantanu here- Who get's to tell a Woman She can't take payment for sex if that's what she wants to do?

Prostitution has been largely decriminilised and licensed in most states of Australia. There are still exploitive and illeagal forms gooing on, but in the Licensed premises, health standards are enforce, coersion is eradicated, the Women work in a safe environment, the Police can be called to deal with trouble- AND they pay tax on their earnings.
User avatar
Wizofoz
 
Name: Wizzo
Posts: 25

Country: UAE
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#56  Postby Shantanu » Dec 01, 2012 10:28 am

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:she could get herself a decent job selling the rest of her body and mind but not her vagina if she is not so inclined

Gee, I'm glad you mentioned mind there. I was getting quite worried that you were obsessed with bodies and vaginas.

Tell me, are you the same Shantanu I read about a while back who thinks that no-one should have a go at Jimmy Savile because he is dead, and because what he did was considered to be more 'the norm' in that era?


What I did say was that all the individual allegations against Jimmy Saville should be examined in a Public Enquiry headed by a Judge who would take explicit details under cross examination from those who are now alleging that they were victims of his sexual predation crimes and other bystanders who were witnesses to the said offences under the prevailing law of the day.
A simple 'yes, I am' would have sufficed. :roll:

Shantanu wrote:Do you disagree with this, preferring to 'have a go' at labeling Jimmy Savile guilty on heresay information?

Yes, I disagree with it, but not just on hearsay. I think the reactions of his immediate surviving family members are enough for most people. You know, those who took money from him in return for keeping their mouths shut? The ones who had his monument taken down, broken up, and taken to a tip before an outraged public could do so? The ones who are or have been talking about removing his body from its resting place to prevent desecration?

Yeah, they are the ones I prefer to listen to.


You did not understand my position which is why you asked a question that could not be answered by Yes/No. Yes, I am a Shantanu who has written about the issue; yes I have said in effect that people should 'not have a go' at anyone without firm evidence, and that means Jimmy Savile too; yes I have said one of the considerations would be the norms of the society in which actions are said to have been made in terms of the prevailing law that governed those actions (meaning you cannot apply today's standards of decency retrospectively to yesterday's world in judging a crime; they have to be assessed under yesterdays laws as they were applied; and this would apply to all the other police investigations currently being undertaken of sexual crimes in bygone years); and yes I also said that for a person who is dead and has left a certain legacy since he is not available to defend himself in person it is most important not to jump to conclusion and have a proper Public Enquiry of the full circumstances of Jimmy Savile's actions because only when the full report comes out, then we will know whether to have a go at Jimmy Savile or not.

Now if you say that should 'have a go' at any men who molest under 16 year old girls in principle proven in a court of law, I will agree with you that we should 'have a go' at them because the law has established this as the age of consent to sex.

These are the principles of law and order that a good justice system is based on. What have you got against the full explanation of my position on the matter, preferring instead a Yes/No answer to your statement?

What you say and what other people do ('have a go' on Jimmy Savile on the basis of tv testimonies from a few women; desecrate Jimmy Savile's monument/grave, close his Trust Fund, etc without the Public Enquiry) is a matter for them.
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#57  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 01, 2012 1:13 pm

Shantanu wrote:What have you got against the full explanation of my position on the matter, preferring instead a Yes/No answer to your statement?
I have nothing against a full explanation of your position, but that wasn't what I was asking about.

All I asked was whether you are the same person, and I made no statement.

I don't need any explanation of your position, as I read it in full probably at around the time it was first published.

This isn't the thread for discussing the issues surrounding Savile though, as there is another one dedicated to them.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#58  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 01, 2012 1:22 pm

Shantanu wrote:You did not understand my position which is why you asked a question that could not be answered by Yes/No.

This is incorrect. I have quite a good understanding of your position, and I did ask a question which could be answered with a yes or no.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#59  Postby Shantanu » Dec 01, 2012 1:43 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:You did not understand my position which is why you asked a question that could not be answered by Yes/No.

This is incorrect. I have quite a good understanding of your position, and I did ask a question which could be answered with a yes or no.


I am sorry I had to explain my concept of 'the prevailing law' again to you.
User avatar
Shantanu
Banned Troll
 
Name: Shantanu Panigrahi
Posts: 164
Age: 64
Male

Country: United Kingdom
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is prostitution banned - isn't that Biblical morality?

#60  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 01, 2012 1:49 pm

Shantanu wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:
Shantanu wrote:You did not understand my position which is why you asked a question that could not be answered by Yes/No.

This is incorrect. I have quite a good understanding of your position, and I did ask a question which could be answered with a yes or no.


I am sorry I had to explain my concept of 'the prevailing law' again to you.

You didn't have to. As I said, I understand your position. Why are you trying to make out that I don't?
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Social Sciences & Humanities

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest