World population

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Re: World population

#61  Postby Doubtdispelled » May 08, 2010 12:37 pm

amorrow wrote:I acknowledge that I was influenced by the real benefits of China's one-child policy

Really?

From the same Wiki entry
The policy is controversial both within and outside China because of the manner in which the policy has been implemented, and because of concerns about negative economic and social consequences. The policy has been implicated in an increase in forced abortions, female infanticide, and underreporting[5] of female births, and has been suggested as a possible cause behind China's gender imbalance.


The one-child policy includes eugenic regulations. Both partners have to be rigorously tested before they marry. If one spouse has an "unsatisfactory" physical or mental condition, ranging from dyslexia to schizophrenia, they are banned from marrying.
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Re: World population

#62  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 4:14 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
amorrow wrote:I acknowledge that I was influenced by the real benefits of China's one-child policy

Really?

From the same Wiki entry
The policy is controversial both within and outside China because of the manner in which the policy has been implemented, and because of concerns about negative economic and social consequences. The policy has been implicated in an increase in forced abortions, female infanticide, and underreporting[5] of female births, and has been suggested as a possible cause behind China's gender imbalance.


The one-child policy includes eugenic regulations. Both partners have to be rigorously tested before they marry. If one spouse has an "unsatisfactory" physical or mental condition, ranging from dyslexia to schizophrenia, they are banned from marrying.


I am aware that China's One-child policy (OPC) is a simplistic idea and enforced by snoopy old (typically female) members of the Communist Party. Thank you for pointing out that it has been corrupted by eugenics. China (and to a lesser degree India) has a lot of problems like its long-established culture patterns of female infanticide, e.g. Tiananmen Square. Those sort of problems are its internal affairs and the people in charge do not want our advice.

ILS is intended by to prompt progress in the biotech area. ILS is intended to be enforced by professionals: obstetricians and police. ILS will have a "win rate" that can be managed by some of board of trustworthy experts just as the U.S. Prime Lending rate is managed by some of our best and brightest.

Which sounds like American-style progress in human civilization to you? Which sounds like a Apollo Space Program where somebody shows leadership, presents a substantial goals and then focuses the resources of the best and brightest to achieve those goals? Let me emphasize: the *goals* of the China's OCP are admirable, but its implementation is kinda sucky. China's OCP is a lot more effective in the urban areas and less so the rural areas (which is what I would expect with ILS as well, at least initially). I am try to take the best structures of American-style civics and fold them into the only working population control program that we can study. I ask again: which sound like progress to you?

Let me put it another way: if you go to the local dog pound and it is time to kill the strays that it seems nobody wants, you have an obvious goal: kill them. You can two distinguishable ways: give "just anybody" a sledge hammer and say "go do it" and maybe "try not to let them see the blow coming" and dispose of the results or you can have smart people invent phenobarbital and have a talented, trained person use a hypodermic. It is the same result. Which sounds like progress in human civilization to you? Which sounds like smart, caring people lead the way vs. just any old dope or mob?

Rather than invoke JFK, try it this way: Please look at this old fogey talk about some moment in his life:

http://www.dnalc.org/view/15492-Discove ... ation.html

http://www.g2conline.info/content/c15/1 ... epair1.swf

Slightly different version here:

http://www.dnatube.com/video/1857/Watso ... air-models

Now, Watson lead Cold Spring Harbor Lab (CSHL) which was involved in some eugenics, etc. in the 1920's, etc. But take a look at the old guy (who some people find a bit irritating) and ask yourself: did he advance civilization or not? Is he a dummy? Should we insist that whenever he wears his Nobel Prize that he also wear a sign that declares to the world "Oh, but I am also sometimes an annoying guy" Does what he did look like progress to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_D._Watson

His UK book tour for "Avoid Annoying People" was a disaster and pretty-much precipitated his resignation from CSHL, so he must be a true villain and maybe he should be asked every week from now on to return his Nobel Prize. Right?

OPC and ILS. Can either ever look like progress to you? If so, please choose one or the other. If you really cannot make such a decision, then please use your talent and come up with a better, more sophisticated well thought-out third option or, I dunno, just go back to watching TV and let us all slop forward towards wherever we are currently headed... another Cuban Missile Crisis or Kampuchea or something like that.

Please: think about it as a chess board and let us agree that "making the best move is hard". What does progress from here look like? Let me suggest that you inspire your best and brightest with a worthy goal. I assert that ILS is a worthy goal. My notions of it may still be in a crude state, but to me, it smells like progress. Maybe I am fooling myself because I thought it up, but I am receptive to feedback: Where did I go wrong? Where did I take the dumb, easy way out? Where did I cave to the villains?
Last edited by amorrow on May 08, 2010 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: World population

#63  Postby Doubtdispelled » May 08, 2010 4:49 pm

amorrow wrote:enforced by snoopy old (typically female) members of the Communist Party

Is this just conjecture on your part, or do you have any reliable sources to back this comment up with?
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Re: World population

#64  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 4:53 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
amorrow wrote:enforced by snoopy old (typically female) members of the Communist Party

Is this just conjecture on your part, or do you have any reliable sources to back this comment up with?


I did read a paper from the 1990's that asserted such, but I did not take notes that the time and I have lost track of it. I will try to find it again, but I ran across that paper under unusual circumstances and I might not be able to find it again. Give me a few weeks on that or try to do your own literature search.
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Re: World population

#65  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 5:00 pm

amorrow wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:
amorrow wrote:enforced by snoopy old (typically female) members of the Communist Party

Is this just conjecture on your part, or do you have any reliable sources to back this comment up with?


I did read a paper from the 1990's that asserted such, but I did not take notes that the time and I have lost track of it. I will try to find it again, but I ran across that paper under unusual circumstances and I might not be able to find it again. Give me a few weeks on that or try to do your own literature search.


OK. Let us start with some more recent links:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2 ... licy_.html
http://www.mnn.com/family/raising-a-fam ... ild-policy
http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?it ... ubcatid=15
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1215519/
http://laogai.org/our_work/one-child-policy
http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/vie ... he_parade/
http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/intern ... -to-an-end
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/worldbalan ... aigns.html
http://chrissmith.house.gov/UploadedFil ... timony.pdf

and here is what I propose: Let us build our own knowledge base:

http://wiki.rational-skepticism.org/ind ... ild_policy

and take it from there. Let me admit: I am #12 on this list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... nned_users

I am this guy:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Amorrow

The reason why I have no notes is because when I read that paper, I was here:

http://wikimapia.org/10326871/Barracks-13

so now maybe you understand why I have no notes. I am this guy:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sour ... anned+user

http://old.nabble.com/Tracking-banned-u ... 55175.html

For whole planet. Now, you tell me when I have been dumb or a coward or a greedy testosterone-molecule-ruled cheat. So quake with fear, you tiny fools.
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Re: World population

#66  Postby Doubtdispelled » May 08, 2010 5:37 pm

amorrow wrote:I am this guy:

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Amorrow


Yes, I know. I may be female, but I know how to use the internet.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

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Re: World population

#67  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 5:39 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:


Yes, I know. I may be female, but I know how to use the internet.


Let me assert that gender is irrelevant. There are only those who cave to the ephemeral social expectations and agendas of their gender and there those who transcend such and reach for the mindless, heartless stars.
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Re: World population

#68  Postby aspire1670 » May 08, 2010 5:46 pm

amorrow wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:


Yes, I know. I may be female, but I know how to use the internet.


Let me assert that gender is irrelevant. There are only those who cave to the ephemeral social expectations and agendas of their gender and there those who transcend such and reach for the mindless, heartless stars.


It's good to see you repudiate your past gender agendas.
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Re: World population

#69  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 5:48 pm

aspire1670 wrote:
amorrow wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:


Yes, I know. I may be female, but I know how to use the internet.


Let me assert that gender is irrelevant. There are only those who cave to the ephemeral social expectations and agendas of their gender and there those who transcend such and reach for the mindless, heartless stars.


It's good to see you repudiate your past gender agendas.


I ask again: what does progress look like? What does it smell like? How does it fill our senses? ILS or OCP? Choose. I dare you to choose.Put your hand upon a piece, move it in a legal fashion and take off your hand. You are worthy of such and I insist.
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Re: World population

#70  Postby aspire1670 » May 08, 2010 5:55 pm

amorrow wrote:
aspire1670 wrote:
amorrow wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:


Yes, I know. I may be female, but I know how to use the internet.


Let me assert that gender is irrelevant. There are only those who cave to the ephemeral social expectations and agendas of their gender and there those who transcend such and reach for the mindless, heartless stars.


It's good to see you repudiate your past gender agendas.


I ask again: what does progress look like? What does it smell like? How does it fill our senses? ILS or OCP? Choose. I dare you to choose.Put your hand upon a piece, move it in a legal fashion and take off your hand. You are worthy of such and I insist.


Ah, so you haven't repudiated your gender agendas?
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Re: World population

#71  Postby Emmeline » May 08, 2010 5:57 pm

The population would likely be reduced if all the women around the world had free access to secular education and total control over their reproductive organs, including contraception and abortion on demand.
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Re: World population

#72  Postby natselrox » May 08, 2010 6:00 pm

What is ILS?
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Re: World population

#73  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 6:05 pm

natselrox wrote:What is ILS?


Infantile Lottery Sterilization. See http://www.thermo4thermo.org/.
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Re: World population

#74  Postby amorrow » May 08, 2010 6:06 pm

Jan wrote:The population would likely be reduced if all the women around the world had free access to secular education and total control over their reproductive organs, including contraception and abortion on demand.


I married the most accomplished and privileged female that would have me. I have one offspring - a female - and she is thriving. Tell me: where I have erred? Where have I engaged in gender snobbery?
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Re: World population

#75  Postby aspire1670 » May 08, 2010 6:07 pm

natselrox wrote:What is ILS?


Infantile Loopy Silliness.
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Re: World population

#76  Postby Doubtdispelled » May 08, 2010 6:10 pm

aspire1670 wrote:
natselrox wrote:What is ILS?


Infantile Loopy Silliness.

:lol:

Hey, stop talking about me behind my back!

:dopey:
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Re: World population

#77  Postby natselrox » May 08, 2010 6:16 pm

amorrow wrote:
natselrox wrote:What is ILS?


Infantile Lottery Sterilization. See http://www.thermo4thermo.org/.


:crazy:
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Re: World population

#78  Postby Sityl » May 08, 2010 6:18 pm

Overpopulation is a very serious issue that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, religions won't support it, because they thrive on an increasing population. More people = more money and more power. This is why the catholic church won't allow Africans to use condoms and why they are so against abortion and birth control.

The OP mentioned forced sterilization of infants based on a lottery. This is unethical. It may solve the problem but the ends do not justify the means. What SHOULD be done, is exactly the opposite of what happens today in the US. The US subsidizes breeders by not only giving them tax breaks, but actually PAYING them based on how many children they have. We need a system where children cause heavy taxation. This would help to decrease the exponential growth of the population while still allowing for people to have children as long as they're willing (and able) to work and pay for it. This system may effect the poor more than the rich, although the country could employ a sliding scale of taxation based on income and net worth. The point though, even if using the sliding scale, would be that the taxation is heavy. It should be a financial burden to have multiple children.
Stephen Colbert wrote:Now, like all great theologies, Bill [O'Reilly]'s can be boiled down to one sentence - 'There must be a god, because I don't know how things work.'


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Re: World population

#79  Postby aspire1670 » May 08, 2010 6:19 pm

amorrow wrote:
Jan wrote:The population would likely be reduced if all the women around the world had free access to secular education and total control over their reproductive organs, including contraception and abortion on demand.


I married the most accomplished and privileged female that would have me. I have one offspring - a female - and she is thriving. Tell me: where I have erred? Where have I engaged in gender snobbery?


Stalking women?
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Re: World population

#80  Postby LIFE » May 08, 2010 6:21 pm

How about education. There's a correlation between overpopulation and education. And it's a long-term solution.

ETA: Just noticed Jan proposed something similar.
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