Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#21  Postby virphen » Jun 16, 2013 2:05 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


This is very much a case of "speak for yourself".
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#22  Postby I Punch Your Face » Jun 16, 2013 2:08 pm

Blip wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#23  Postby Thomas Eshuis » Jun 16, 2013 2:11 pm

virphen wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


This is very much a case of "speak for yourself".

Indeed. In my experience the bolded bit is usually the other way around. Still an appeal to personal anecdote though.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#24  Postby Matthew Shute » Jun 16, 2013 2:16 pm

You can, of course.

There also seems to be a false dichotomy bandied about: either he/she is your friend OR you think about having sex with him/her. Why wouldn't it be possible to have a friend you thought about having sex with? Thoughts are not equivalent to actions. Sex itself might complicate a friendship if it does happen; but it wouldn't be impossible to continue the friendship. So yes, whatever you think or don't think, regarding sex, friendship with anyone of any gender is possible.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#25  Postby I Punch Your Face » Jun 16, 2013 2:16 pm

Thomas Eshuis wrote:
virphen wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


This is very much a case of "speak for yourself".

Indeed. In my experience the bolded bit is usually the other way around. Still an appeal to personal anecdote though.


Yes it's been my experience (observation) that mostly women's friendships aren't as sincere as men's. I'm not trying to convince anybody that this is universal (although I do think it is), rather I'm just expressing what I observe. If it's only my experience, fair enough, but it does strike me as awfully uncanny that it is also the way almost everyone I know sees it. And some of their friends too. Some of the harshest criticisms that I have heard about female-female friendships have come from women themselves, so it's not like I'm just pulling this out of thin air. There comes a point when anecdotal evidence builds to a point where you need to look at it seriously, and being politically correct doesn't help. It is what it is.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#26  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 2:17 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#27  Postby I Punch Your Face » Jun 16, 2013 2:18 pm

Matthew Shute wrote:You can, of course.

There also seems to be a false dichotomy bandied about: either he/she is your friend OR you think about having sex with him/her. Why wouldn't it be possible to have a friend you thought about having sex with? Thoughts are not equivalent to actions. Sex itself might complicate a friendship if it does happen; but it wouldn't be impossible to continue the friendship. So yes, whatever you think or don't think, regarding sex, friendship with anyone of any gender is possible.


I don't know if you have a girlfriend or not, but if you do, and she spent quite a bit of time with some other guy and claimed it to be platonic, if you're anything like me and every male I've ever known, I'm sure you wouldn't be very comfortable with it.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#28  Postby I Punch Your Face » Jun 16, 2013 2:25 pm

mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.


It is what it is.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#29  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 2:27 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:
mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:

My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.


It is what it is.

Maybe for you it is.

Do you experience feelings of jealousy quickly?
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#30  Postby I Punch Your Face » Jun 16, 2013 2:33 pm

mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:

It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.


It is what it is.

Maybe for you it is.

Do you experience feelings of jealousy quickly?


No, not for a very long time. I don't find it helpful. How about you?
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#31  Postby Blip » Jun 16, 2013 2:43 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.


Well, I'd say that perhaps some people, regardless of gender, see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas most of us 'tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship'. I myself am in the latter category.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#32  Postby Doubtdispelled » Jun 16, 2013 2:49 pm

mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.


My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.

I'm finding myself wondering whether this particular slippery slope isn't the other way up for some people.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#33  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 2:50 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:
mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
mindhack wrote:
Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.


It is what it is.

Maybe for you it is.

Do you experience feelings of jealousy quickly?


No, not for a very long time. I don't find it helpful. How about you?

It depends on the quility of the relationship involved, with trust playing a keyrole.

I've been with the same woman for over ten years and only experienced jealousy during the first few years, when trust was under construction upwards.

Trust is equally important in platonic friendships, though there're different consequences involved when violated. I can imagine if someone doesn't trust women in general developing a friendship with one of them can be hard to imagine.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#34  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 2:52 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
mindhack wrote:
I Punch Your Face wrote:
Blip wrote:

My emphasis. That's a bold assertion to make: do you have any evidence for it? Disappointing personal experiences, if any, don't count.

I query your point (2) and conclusion as well.


It's not from disappointing personal experiences. Why would I be disappointed by the lack of something that I never expected in the first place? In all my years I've only probably come across two friendships between women that are comparable to the average male-male friendship in terms of sincerity. Pretty much all the men that I personally know would say roughly the same thing, and also a lot of the women I know too.

Friendships in terms of sincerity seems a pleonasm to me.

It's a slippery slope you've constructed.

It's easy to go from; women are not often sincere in their friendships, via, women are incapable of having sincere friendships, to ultimately, women only use people and are therefore not to be trusted.

I'm finding myself wondering whether this particular slippery slope isn't the other way up for some people.

I was wondering that myself, whether I punch_your_face presented us with the conclusion of this slippery slope in a round about way.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#35  Postby Onyx8 » Jun 16, 2013 3:29 pm

I Punch Your Face wrote:You can have friends of the opposite sex, but only under two possible conditions :

1) There's no attraction involved, or very little. But bear in mind that sometimes women see friendships in terms of their usefulness whereas men tend to value qualities, attributes and general companionship.
2) You're already doing the horizontal dance and you develop the friendship as time goes by. In other words, the friendship must be based on romance / intimacy and the natural dynamic between male and female.

Other than that, friendships between men and women are fake.



So the friendships I have with the women I know are fake, are they? Thanks for letting me know, I'll be sure to tell them when I next hang out, at least we'll have a bit of a laugh.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#36  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 16, 2013 3:31 pm

I think it is a stupid question.

Ofcourse you can have friends with any sex and you also can have sex with any sex what is the problem. I had a realtionship for years with a girl/woman. After many years we met up again and had we were still very good friends but we had realised years ago as a couple we would be useless. We used to sleep together but no sex it just did not suit us. She was very attractive but there was no spark.

Why do so many people have hang ups about sex?

There are no pre-conditions only in some peoples minds.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#37  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 4:15 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:I think it is a stupid question.

Ofcourse you can have friends with any sex and you also can have sex with any sex what is the problem. I had a realtionship for years with a girl/woman. After many years we met up again and had we were still very good friends but we had realised years ago as a couple we would be useless. We used to sleep together but no sex it just did not suit us. She was very attractive but there was no spark.

Why do so many people have hang ups about sex?

There are no pre-conditions only in some peoples minds.

I'm used to being around women from an early age on. From early childhood I remember having girls as friends, which was something sometimes being frowned upon by my fellow male friends. During puberty it wasn't much different. Heck, we had a nice bunch of people gathering often, as friends, we had sleepovers, and all that. Mostly without sex, mostly :lol:
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#38  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jun 16, 2013 4:47 pm

mindhack wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:I think it is a stupid question.

Ofcourse you can have friends with any sex and you also can have sex with any sex what is the problem. I had a realtionship for years with a girl/woman. After many years we met up again and had we were still very good friends but we had realised years ago as a couple we would be useless. We used to sleep together but no sex it just did not suit us. She was very attractive but there was no spark.

Why do so many people have hang ups about sex?

There are no pre-conditions only in some peoples minds.

I'm used to being around women from an early age on. From early childhood I remember having girls as friends, which was something sometimes being frowned upon by my fellow male friends. During puberty it wasn't much different. Heck, we had a nice bunch of people gathering often, as friends, we had sleepovers, and all that. Mostly without sex, mostly :lol:


Do you think it is an anglo-saxon hang up again?
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#39  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 4:51 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
mindhack wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:I think it is a stupid question.

Ofcourse you can have friends with any sex and you also can have sex with any sex what is the problem. I had a realtionship for years with a girl/woman. After many years we met up again and had we were still very good friends but we had realised years ago as a couple we would be useless. We used to sleep together but no sex it just did not suit us. She was very attractive but there was no spark.

Why do so many people have hang ups about sex?

There are no pre-conditions only in some peoples minds.

I'm used to being around women from an early age on. From early childhood I remember having girls as friends, which was something sometimes being frowned upon by my fellow male friends. During puberty it wasn't much different. Heck, we had a nice bunch of people gathering often, as friends, we had sleepovers, and all that. Mostly without sex, mostly :lol:


Do you think it is an anglo-saxon hang up again?

I wouldn't know. I'm not an anglo-saxon expert by any measure.

I just recall from personal experience some people value strict boundaries between the sexes, while others do not.
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Re: Can you have friends of the opposite sex?

#40  Postby mindhack » Jun 16, 2013 5:07 pm

The sex I did have with female friends, way back, was more like an extension of sex education.

We were horny alright, but it allowed us to try stuff out in a "friendly" environment, without too much risks involved, so to speak.

Friends of opposite sex can fancy eachother, have sex with eachother, without changing too much. We remained friends and didn't expect anything to change afterwards.
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