Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#21  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 31, 2018 3:15 pm

Fallible wrote:KIR. are you talking about short-term or long-term homeless?
:dunno:

Fallible wrote:I don't think 'many' homeless people are on the run from the law. There are more plausible explanations for the majority: mental health issues, learning difficulties, youngsters from bad family situations, addicts (you'd be surprised at the number of people who are in fact homeless though gambling; some are evicted by council/banks, some are chucked out by partners), those who have for other reasons been living beyond their means.

TBH Fal the "on the run" hypothesis seems more likely/plausible to me than any of the above...except possibly addiction. Social services should keep the other categories snug and warm if working at all well :?

Fallible wrote:We have too many homeless people for a first world nation, but comparatively our homeless population is small. The majority live in or near to city or town centres. It's not going to be hard for the fuzz to scour the homeless population for the ones they're looking for.

Hmmmm if I were on the run I wouldn't stay in my home town.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#22  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 31, 2018 3:18 pm

Alan B wrote:
Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

'Many'?
I doubt it . A very small proportion, perhaps. I suspect, Kir, that your OP is coloured by your recent experience. Hope you are OK, now.


Thanks, I'm good, and yes you might well be right and this theory is biased to fuck...or perhaps my experience has illuminated an esoteric truth...the jury's out (NPI).

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Amen to that.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#23  Postby zoon » Dec 31, 2018 4:00 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
zoon wrote:Your post implies that it's easy to find a non-payroll job as a homeless person, what sort of job would you have in mind?

:eh: I did not mean to imply that, and don't know how you took that.

In your opening post you write:
If on the run it would not be possible to interact with the welfare state or get a payroll job as that would compromise one's anonymity and lead to one being nicked, so one would have to remain homeless....possibly for a very long time.

Are you assuming that you've decamped with a stash of enough money to keep you going without troubling the benefits people, or that a friend would take you in? If not, you would presumably need to find some sort of work? I am curious to know how you would set about looking for work in those circumstances? I suspect that knocking on people's doors and asking for a gardening job would lead to the sort of interest from the authorities which you would be trying to avoid?
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#24  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 31, 2018 4:49 pm

Ample free food is easily obtained in most cities these days, as well as other forms of no questions asked support for the homeless. That's survival. There's also begging and perhaps some cash in hand work could be found. Also if they are on the run they may well be familiar with working as a pharmacist or in removals etc. I did not state, nor imply, that homeless people need be in normal paid work.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#25  Postby Fallible » Dec 31, 2018 6:45 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Fallible wrote:KIR. are you talking about short-term or long-term homeless?
:dunno:

Fallible wrote:I don't think 'many' homeless people are on the run from the law. There are more plausible explanations for the majority: mental health issues, learning difficulties, youngsters from bad family situations, addicts (you'd be surprised at the number of people who are in fact homeless though gambling; some are evicted by council/banks, some are chucked out by partners), those who have for other reasons been living beyond their means.

TBH Fal the "on the run" hypothesis seems more likely/plausible to me than any of the above...except possibly addiction. Social services should keep the other categories snug and warm if working at all well :?


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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#26  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 31, 2018 6:50 pm

Of course, silly me....reality bites. I think the OP conjecture is in fact biased through recent experience. The fact homelessness has skyrocketed since the tories brought in universal credit (no more direct from DWP to landlords rent payments) points the boney finger firmly at secondary poverty/destitution- namely resulting from addiction however IMO, not failure of social services per se.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#27  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 01, 2019 9:59 pm

The level of rough sleeping has doubled since 2013, when universal credit began being rolled out. Link

I remember a conversation with a friend where we actually predicted this, saying circa "all the junkies, if their housing benefit isn't paid direct to their landlord anymore they'll just spunk it up the wall on crack and smack and end up being evicted!"

"Interestingly" enough there is no mention of this phenomenon on the UC wiki page, nor street drug addiction on the secondary poverty page.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#28  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 01, 2019 10:07 pm

Is there any particular reason they decided to not make sure money set aside for a particular purpose went to that particular purpose? I'm imagining some sort of naive libertarian-style argument about "personal freedom".
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#29  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 01, 2019 10:11 pm

That would certainly be in keeping with the Nazty party's prevailing philosophy (deregulation, free markets etc). Either that and/or they're so pathetically out of touch with those on benefits they simply failed to foresee this problem (I wouldn't be surprised).
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#30  Postby zoon » Jan 02, 2019 9:29 am

Keep It Real wrote:That would certainly be in keeping with the Nazty party's prevailing philosophy (deregulation, free markets etc). Either that and/or they're so pathetically out of touch with those on benefits they simply failed to foresee this problem (I wouldn't be surprised).

According to the August 2018 Rough Sleeping Strategy document here, housing benefit will be kept for people in supported housing, so I presume it would continue to be paid directly to the landlord. This could have been a change of mind, as you say, since people with mental health problems, addiction or other, could well have difficulty tracking how much money they need for housing. Quoting the executive summary of the link, paragraph 7:
We also recognise the value of sufficient and good quality supported housing. This is why we have recently announced that we are maintaining Housing Benefit for all supported housing, and will work with the sector on oversight of quality and value for money. This reflects the particular needs of the vulnerable groups of people who access supported housing, and the government’s commitment to get the best possible outcomes for them.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#31  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 02, 2019 10:22 am

We'll, that's something I guess, although they fail to state the true reason for this partial housing benefit U-turn (the fact many are incapable of responsibly managing their finances) which rather buries the truth of the matter, and in many ways the plane has already crashed into the mountain.

Speaking from experience, people moving from supported housing into council properties are given "Gold Banding" priority on the waiting list, which means they'll be housed by the council in short order. Will their rent money be paid direct to the council? Apparantly not :dunno: so, once again, potential eviction beckons. The whole thing's an almighty pooch srewing.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#32  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 02, 2019 10:58 am

I've requested a thread split.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#33  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 02, 2019 7:40 pm

Twice, using different methods. :kitten: :flowers:
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#34  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 7:55 am

What for. One crappy thread into two crappier threads?
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#35  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 8:20 am

The issue of the doubling of rough sleeping in England since 2013 and the likely blame for that is an important issue which deserves its own thread as is unrelated to this thread's title. SAM, zoon, Theropod and even Alan B have shown a genuine interest in this thread, amongst others, and I'm far more likely to take their view of its value that some overly nationalistic come racist malcontent. I'll "split" the thread myself later today if the mods don't.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#36  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 8:30 am

Start your own by any means but dont split rubbish.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#37  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 8:31 am

Stop diluting the thread with your ill-tempered bile. K thnx bye.
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Re: Are many homeless in the UK on the run from the law?

#38  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 10:30 am

FFS. It was the wrong title for the thread anyway.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#39  Postby Blip » Jan 03, 2019 2:46 pm


!
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It seems to us that the discussion has evolved naturally and should be kept together for cohesion; a title change to reflect the thread's widening scope seems more appropriate than a split.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#40  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 2:48 pm

Yeah, barring some sort of new data there really isn't anything else to say about the OP.
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