Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#41  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 3:07 pm

Perhaps SAM, but one thing occurred to me today: Everybody arrested for anything in the UK gets their cheeks swabbed and their DNA stored on the system. If there are, well, ANY rough sleepers and/or beggars who are on the run (which certainly seems likely)I wonder how obtaining a sample of their DNA for comparison could be implemented :think: without looking/being all civil liberty annihilating.


PC: I'll give you 20 quid if you give me a few cheek cells fella? I know you must be skint because you're sleeping rough/begging on the street.

Fella: Na, I ain't doing that.

PC: Right, that's probable cause, you're nicked.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#42  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 3:08 pm

Thanks Blip. :thumbup:
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#43  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 3:11 pm

Beat you to it Scot. I'm surprised you're not complaining this "crappy, rubbish thread" wasn't merged with "Player Hating" - oh no, wait, I'm actually not. :coffee:
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#44  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 3:12 pm

WTF are you on about.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#45  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 3:12 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Perhaps SAM, but one thing occurred to me today: Everybody arrested for anything in the UK gets their cheeks swabbed and their DNA stored on the system. If there are, well, ANY rough sleepers and/or beggars who are on the run (which certainly seems likely)I wonder how obtaining a sample of their DNA for comparison could be implemented :think: without looking/being all civil liberty annihilating.

That seems convoluted and unnecessary. I imagine they could just do it the old fashioned way by asking people.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#46  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 4:38 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:WTF are you on about.


Clearly your comprehension of the English language could use some improvement - it's perhaps not as straight forward as good old simple homophone free Netherlandsish. I thumbed up the modnote before you did. You called this thread crap and rubbish. The threads I start which the mods deem to be inappropriate crappy rubbish are merged together into 1 thread, titled "Player Hating." I decided your uturn on wishing the thread in the bin does not surprise me because you strike me these days as being one who would happily bimble along in duplicity without thinking they've so much as a hair out of place. Comprehenday?
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#47  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 4:39 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Perhaps SAM, but one thing occurred to me today: Everybody arrested for anything in the UK gets their cheeks swabbed and their DNA stored on the system. If there are, well, ANY rough sleepers and/or beggars who are on the run (which certainly seems likely)I wonder how obtaining a sample of their DNA for comparison could be implemented :think: without looking/being all civil liberty annihilating.

That seems convoluted and unnecessary. I imagine they could just do it the old fashioned way by asking people.


Ask who what?
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#48  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 4:44 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:
Keep It Real wrote:Perhaps SAM, but one thing occurred to me today: Everybody arrested for anything in the UK gets their cheeks swabbed and their DNA stored on the system. If there are, well, ANY rough sleepers and/or beggars who are on the run (which certainly seems likely)I wonder how obtaining a sample of their DNA for comparison could be implemented :think: without looking/being all civil liberty annihilating.

That seems convoluted and unnecessary. I imagine they could just do it the old fashioned way by asking people.


Ask who what?

Ask the homeless if they're on the run from the law.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#49  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 4:52 pm

Well done SAM, you've just done away with the need for lawyers and a large part of the rest of the criminal justice system: just asked the accused if they did it or not! Genius! What am I missing here man, please inform...
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#50  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 5:07 pm

Keep It Real wrote:Well done SAM, you've just done away with the need for lawyers and a large part of the rest of the criminal justice system: just asked the accused if they did it or not! Genius! What am I missing here man, please inform...

Whether they're guilty of a crime or not is irrelevant. If a homeless person is homeless because they're on the run from the law, then they know it, don't they? Why can't you just ask them? What reason would they have to lie about it? Do you not have polls over there that survey people without threatening to send them to jail for answering it a particular way?
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#51  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 5:22 pm

SafeAsMilk wrote:What reason would they have to lie about it?


A nagging fear, which it seems to me an exaggeration to call paranoia, that it might get back to the police, or in a best case scenario from their perspecive that it leads to the release of the poll data showing that, say, 15% of rough sleepers are on the run from the law and that leading to mandatory dna testing of the homeless. Either way they're nicked. Not to mention the "habit" they're likely in of denying their fugitive status, perhaps even to themselves. They'd have to be stark raving mad to admit to it IMO given the obvious lengths they're going to to avoid the long arm of the law.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#52  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 5:42 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
SafeAsMilk wrote:What reason would they have to lie about it?


A nagging fear, which it seems to me an exaggeration to call paranoia, that it might get back to the police, or in a best case scenario from their perspecive that it leads to the release of the poll data showing that, say, 15% of rough sleepers are on the run from the law and that leading to mandatory dna testing of the homeless.

I'd say if they're at that level of paranoia, then it's not just being on the run from the law (the poll certainly doesn't have to ask what they're charged with) that's causing their homelessness. Is there some sort of precedent for thinking it might lead to DNA testing?

Either way they're nicked.

But they're not. Again, do you not have polling without legal consequences? We have that sort of thing over here.

Not to mention the "habit" they're likely in of denying their fugitive status, perhaps even to themselves. They'd have to be stark raving mad to admit to it IMO given the obvious lengths they're going to to avoid the long arm of the law.

Again, that level of paranoia would indicate some other more severe problem, mental disorders being a more commonly understood reason for homelessness.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#53  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 5:48 pm

If there are such polling methods I've never heard of them, and doubt most on the street would have either - for all they'd know the questioner is a plain clothed officer.

Option a - deny being on the run from the law. Possible negative consequences - 0. Possible positive consequences 0.
Option b - admit to being on the run from the law. Possible negative consequences (regardless of the reality, but in the perps mind) - Immense and life defining. Possible positive consequences 0.

Like I said: stark raving mad.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#54  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 6:03 pm

Keep It Real wrote:If there are such polling methods I've never heard of them,

Really? You've never heard of polling that isn't immediately turned over to the police? What sort of fascistic police state do you live in?

and doubt most on the street would have either - for all they'd know the questioner is a plain clothed officer.

That would be a ridiculous assumption. If the police thought that would be an effective method, they would've done it a long time ago.

Option a - deny being on the run from the law. Possible negative consequences - 0. Possible positive consequences 0.

So then why are you even asking this question? If you can't think of any possible reason why knowing that people who are homeless are on the run from the law could be helpful to the homeless, then why are you trying to make the case for it?

Option b - admit to being on the run from the law. Possible negative consequences (regardless of the reality, but in the perps mind) - Immense and life defining. Possible positive consequences 0.

Like I said: stark raving mad.

Maybe not stark raving mad, but that level of unfounded paranoia would certainly be an indication that there's a major contributing problem other than the one you're suggesting.

Look I get it, you've got a special attachment to your idea and you'll say or come up with literally anything to pretend it's valid, including making it impossible to determine if you're right or not. If you're just going to continue being unreasonably obstinate, just making up any silly nonsense that comes into your head, then I'm not going to waste any more time trying to discuss this issue with you until you. Find some real data, until then you're just flailing in the dark.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#55  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 6:22 pm

"Unfounded paranoia" - Now I understand why US prisons are bursting at the seams! :lol:
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#56  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 6:29 pm

You should be surprised if your prison system isn't bursting at the seams if all it takes is a cop pretending to be a pollster. Again, when you feel like having a reasoned conversation, let me know.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#57  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 6:31 pm

You're the one on cloud cuckoo land about this SAM m8, not me. All I can say is I doubt very much you've ever spent so much as a single night in police custody :dunno:
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#58  Postby SafeAsMilk » Jan 03, 2019 6:41 pm

Keep It Real wrote:You're the one on cloud cuckoo land about this SAM m8, not me.

Yeah, I mean after all, you're the one talking about police going around pretending to be pollsters. It's not the most cuckoo thing I've ever heard, but it's up there. Just one more thing for you to assume without any sort of evidence whatsoever. It's an ongoing trend.

All I can say is I doubt very much you've ever spent so much as a single night in police custody :dunno:

I haven't, though apparently it's because I wasn't hunted down by pollsters during my trips to the UK :lol:
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#59  Postby Keep It Real » Jan 03, 2019 6:47 pm

Dude, if you're on the run from the law, with such conviction that you're actually sleeping rough, rule number 1 is you don't go around running your chops about it to random strangers. Jesus fucking Christ dude you're really orbiting Neptune about this one. Wow.
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Re: Causes of increase in rough sleeping in UK

#60  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jan 03, 2019 6:47 pm

Keep It Real wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:WTF are you on about.


Clearly your comprehension of the English language could use some improvement - it's perhaps not as straight forward as good old simple homophone free Netherlandsish. I thumbed up the modnote before you did. You called this thread crap and rubbish. The threads I start which the mods deem to be inappropriate crappy rubbish are merged together into 1 thread, titled "Player Hating." I decided your uturn on wishing the thread in the bin does not surprise me because you strike me these days as being one who would happily bimble along in duplicity without thinking they've so much as a hair out of place. Comprehenday?


Forgot your meds or had a glass or two? I never thumbed anything. It is a load of crap.
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