Circumcision in America and Canada

I'm With Stupid · #1 by **I'm With Stupid** » May 11, 2010 12:43 pm

Can someone explain to me why America and Canada have much higher rates of newborn circumcision than Europe? What exactly contributed to the widespread uptake of the practice at a level only matched in the Islamic world? It just seems strange that two countries that are culturally European to a large extent should be very different on this particular issue. And there doesn't appear to be any religious reason why it would be the case.

Incidentally, the two non-Islamic East Asian countries with high rates of the practice also happen to be the two that have had influence from America: South Korea and the Philippines (although according to wikipedia, it happens between 11 and 13 in the Philippines, so that's possibly a coincidence).

Oh, and I also added Australia to the poll, because it seemed to have a similarly large percentage of circumcisions in the past, which wasn't shared by New Zealand.

Anyway, anyone have any insight into it? Has it always been the case, or is it relatively recent? By recent, presumably pre-the Korean war.

Dudely · #2 by **Dudely** » May 11, 2010 2:27 pm

I think it's a cultural meme based on misinformation. Namely, that circumcision provides some sort of medical or sanitary benefit. Even today I have long arguments with my wife over it in which she simply states that all our sons will be circumcised "because it's cleaner" or because guys with foreskin have "smelly penises". My opinion and the scientific evidence be damned. I'm glad our first child was a daughter.

Even worse the rates are still pretty high even after doctors stopped recommending it and the government of Canada made it so you had to actually pay for it- unlike all your other care when you give birth.

HughMcB · #3 by **HughMcB** » May 11, 2010 2:55 pm

I know lots of my guy friends here in Canada are circumcised. Apparently they were all duped by the American hype of promises of healthier penises. Too bad for them. :lol:

Vipera Berus · #4 by **Vipera Berus** » May 11, 2010 3:04 pm

If its an advantage to not have a foreskin then why do we still have them? Surely by using the time & energy growing the foreskin for some other purpose would have given someones some sort of benefit by now & left us all without foreskins. This leads me to conclude that as with blind cave fish & loosing their eyes when living in caves, the forskin serves some sort of purpose.

Edit: Typo

trubble76 · #5 by **trubble76** » May 11, 2010 3:13 pm

The pro-circumcision crowd are really gonna have to come up with some better reasons for me to cut a piece of my penis, or that of any off-spring.
Mine is intact and has so far not caused any health problems, and as for the smell idea, if i don't wash any part of me it eventually starts to smell, if however i do wash then i don't smell. I sure as hell would rather wash daily than cut bits off my cock.

I wonder if any cultures remove the armpits for health and aroma reasons?

Link · #6 by **Link** » May 11, 2010 3:50 pm

Where's LordP? She's the expert on all things circumcisiony.

I remember being surprised when I found out that people had it done to their kids for non-religious and non-medical reasons, I mean what's the point? I guess it's cultural :scratch:

wunksta · #7 by **wunksta** » May 11, 2010 3:52 pm

there are some circumstantial benefits BUT it should be a decision made by the individual

I'm With Stupid · #8 by **I'm With Stupid** » May 11, 2010 4:21 pm

Dudely wrote:I think it's a cultural meme based on misinformation.

Yeah but where did that come from? According to wikipedia, you used to be able to get it free on Medicare in all 50 states. And if they affected Korea, if had to be pre-50s. Would it be cynical to suggest that there was some money to be made in spreading such a meme around?

wunksta · #9 by **wunksta** » May 11, 2010 4:25 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:

Yeah but where did that come from? According to wikipedia, you used to be able to get it free on Medicare in all 50 states. And if they affected Korea, if had to be pre-50s. Would it be cynical to suggest that there was some money to be made in spreading such a meme around?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#History

THWOTH · **#10** by **THWOTH** » May 11, 2010 5:00 pm

It's no skin off my nose... :coffee:

Agi Hammerthief · **#11** by **Agi Hammerthief** » May 11, 2010 5:50 pm

Dudely wrote:...
she simply states that all our sons will be circumcised "because it's cleaner" or because guys with foreskin have "smelly penises". .

brainwashed into a pawlowian reflex?

there is a foreskin, therefore nose twitches :crazy:

tetters · **#12** by **tetters** » May 11, 2010 5:52 pm

How come there isn't an "I don't know?" option? :whistle:

THWOTH · **#13** by **THWOTH** » May 11, 2010 5:54 pm

tetters wrote:How come there isn't an "I don't know?" option?

tetters · **#14** by **tetters** » May 11, 2010 5:56 pm

'twas a joke man. See the silly little broken teef smiley dude. :-)

In all seriousness... I worked with a guy who was 25 at the time... he didn't know if he'd had done.

Elena · **#15** by **Elena** » May 11, 2010 6:09 pm

I'm With Stupid wrote:Can someone explain to me why America and Canada have much higher rates of newborn circumcision than Europe? What exactly contributed to the widespread uptake of the practice at a level only matched in the Islamic world?

Here in the US the practice was encouraged in the late 19th century by a highly religious man, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg (1). He proposed that circumcision would deter boys from masturbating
:picard:

Other benefits of circumcision touted later, such as a relative reduction in the rate of infections, stemmed probably from the fact that in those days nobody bathed daily -- and hygiene was poor. (Infection rates are reduced by cleanliness of the prepuce, not just by its amputation).

1- J.H. Kellogg. Plain facts for young and old: Embracing the natural history of hygiene and organic life, 2nd edition, Burlington (Iowa), 1888, facsimile reprint (New York: Arno, 1974)

Animavore · **#16** by **Animavore** » May 11, 2010 6:15 pm

Hate that. I'd rather keep my foreskin. I can use it to store cheese.

gilthanass · **#17** by **gilthanass** » May 11, 2010 6:22 pm

I am Canadian, and am circumcised. Aside from things like cleanliness (it seems easier to clean) I think it's become very cultural, and to change it would take a big shift. See, girls over here are used to circumcised penises, so seeing one that isn't is strange for them (and they consider it dirtier). However, I think the biggest driver right now is the father factor.

I mean, personally, even though I have a scientific bent, insist on logical argument, etc, if you asked me right now if I will have my son circumcised (I don't have a son yet) I would say "probably, yeah". Why? I don't know. I think there is something psychological about having our sons look like us. Of course, I could probably be convinced otherwise, but as an off the cuff answer, I would want my son to have the same... junk... as I do.

SPMaximus · **#18** by **SPMaximus** » May 11, 2010 6:26 pm

I'm all man :door:

enkidu · **#19** by **enkidu** » May 11, 2010 8:33 pm

Born in the US, but ethnically Swedish. I believe there was some problem with the hospital insisting about mutilating me, but my parents, especially my uncut dad, put their collective foot down. :clap:

HughMcB · **#20** by **HughMcB** » May 11, 2010 8:47 pm

Looks like all us Euro-trash have are foreskins proudly flappin' in the wind!

One hundred percent, one hundred percent so far.