Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

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Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#1  Postby akigr8 » Jun 02, 2010 9:12 pm

This lively RSA Animate, adapted from Dan Pink's talk at the RSA, illustrates the hidden truths behind what really motivates us at home and in the workplace.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc[/youtube]
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#2  Postby hotshoe » Jun 02, 2010 10:44 pm

Nice, loved his graphics.
Now, when I talked to God I knew he'd understand
He said, "Stick by my side and I'll be your guiding hand
But don't ask me what I think of you
I might not give the answer that you want me to"
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#3  Postby akigr8 » Jun 02, 2010 11:16 pm

Yeah, I love the graphics style.
I was thinking of posting more of these 10 minutes animations by RSA, they are great. :smile:
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#4  Postby Elena » Jun 03, 2010 1:38 am

Good talk, akigr8, thanks.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#5  Postby keypad5 » Jun 03, 2010 3:32 am

ZOMG, I so do that. I spend hours doing technical stuff for free that could, hopefully, lead to biological/medical breakthroughs.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#6  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 03, 2010 6:01 am

Cool video, the content is bullshit though.

You can find the study here. The problem is that they are assuming that the value of the incentives increases exponentially; that is, they are assuming that the difference between $1 to $2, is the same relative difference as $100 to $200, and $1000 to $2000. However, we know that this is wrong as value increases hyperbolically. The relevance here is that whilst it makes sense to work harder for a "Very Good" performance when your options are $10 and $20, there is less incentive to do so for $100 and $200 - essentially because even if you fail, you get a fair bit of money anyway.

Their claim that "cognitive tasks" somehow violate behavioral laws is also bullshit. What they should have concluded was that the more arduous the task, then the less value incentives have. We already knew this though, we created the laws that determine this behavior over 40 years ago and if we plug the data in from this study, I'm sure we'll find that people behaved exactly as predicted. To highlight this point, in their study their "mechanical task" was to alternate between pressing the 'v' and 'n' buttons on a keyboard, and the "cognitive task" they were given a set of 20 matrixes (with 12 numbers in each) and their task was to find two numbers that would add to 10.

Their general conclusions are kind of right, but they've horribly misunderstood their data, made numerous unfounded assumptions and spectacularly failed at doing a basic literature search before flying all the way to India to "discover" something that was done and dusted over 40 years ago.

Ah economists, always a few decades behind the science...
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#7  Postby jaydot » Jun 03, 2010 6:41 am

so how come linux?
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#8  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 03, 2010 6:45 am

jaydot wrote:so how come linux?


Is that aimed at me, or the OP?
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#9  Postby akigr8 » Jun 03, 2010 6:59 am

Mr.Samsa wrote:Cool video, the content is bullshit though.

You can find the study here. The problem is that they are assuming that the value of the incentives increases exponentially; that is, they are assuming that the difference between $1 to $2, is the same relative difference as $100 to $200, and $1000 to $2000. However, we know that this is wrong as value increases hyperbolically. The relevance here is that whilst it makes sense to work harder for a "Very Good" performance when your options are $10 and $20, there is less incentive to do so for $100 and $200 - essentially because even if you fail, you get a fair bit of money anyway.

Their claim that "cognitive tasks" somehow violate behavioral laws is also bullshit. What they should have concluded was that the more arduous the task, then the less value incentives have. We already knew this though, we created the laws that determine this behavior over 40 years ago and if we plug the data in from this study, I'm sure we'll find that people behaved exactly as predicted. To highlight this point, in their study their "mechanical task" was to alternate between pressing the 'v' and 'n' buttons on a keyboard, and the "cognitive task" they were given a set of 20 matrixes (with 12 numbers in each) and their task was to find two numbers that would add to 10.

Their general conclusions are kind of right, but they've horribly misunderstood their data, made numerous unfounded assumptions and spectacularly failed at doing a basic literature search before flying all the way to India to "discover" something that was done and dusted over 40 years ago.

Ah economists, always a few decades behind the science...

Thanks for the input, and link. :cheers:
I'm not knowledgeable in this area to give valuable input back.

Googling a bit for info I found out is a lecture by Daniel Pink, he has written a book on the subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_H._Pink
http://www.danpink.com/drive

TED video http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_mo ... ted.com_2U

I see it gets flack from the commenters on this book review http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... sing-truth

OT @ Samsa: Using Rockbox now on my mp3-player, installed it a couple of days ago. Sweet :grin:
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#10  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 03, 2010 7:18 am

akigr8 wrote:
Thanks for the input, and link. :cheers:
I'm not knowledgeable in this area to give valuable input back.

Googling a bit for info I found out is a lecture by Daniel Pink, he has written a book on the subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_H._Pink
http://www.danpink.com/drive

TED video http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_mo ... ted.com_2U

I see it gets flack from the commenters on this book review http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... sing-truth


Yeah he seems to be trying to make some massive counter-intuitive point probably in order to sell a few books and get a bit of recognition. The unfortunate part is that he's mostly basing it on flawed historical research; i.e., the idea that incentives decrease motivation or performance is simply flat out wrong. In reality what he actually shows is that perception of value is not exponential and that making a task more difficult lowers performance.

It's mostly just misrepresentation, misunderstanding and poor research.. but I guess whores will have their trinkets..

akigr8 wrote:OT @ Samsa: Using Rockbox now on my mp3-player, installed it a couple of days ago. Sweet :grin:


Excellent! I installed Linux on my system a couple of months ago, following my rockbox obsession, and currently loving it. I've also bought a netbook/ebook reader thing as well that I have to pick up sometime in the weekend with Google Android on, so I'm excited to see how it goes.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#11  Postby akigr8 » Jun 03, 2010 7:46 am

^^Maybe this OP should be marked as debunked, or locked or something? Maybe something added to the title :ask:

I don't use Windows anymore, everything I need I get in Linux. Android looks promising.
If you want to use your netbook mostly for social media you might want to have a look into Jolicloud and MeeGo.

Love your avatar, bad to the bone. :)
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#12  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 03, 2010 8:06 am

akigr8 wrote:^^Maybe this OP should be marked as debunked, or locked or something? Maybe something added to the title :ask:


:grin: Maybe someone will point out a flaw in my analysis..

akigr8 wrote:I don't use Windows anymore, everything I need I get in Linux. Android looks promising.
If you want to use your netbook mostly for social media you might want to have a look into Jolicloud and MeeGo.


Cheers for the info, not really a social media person though. I wanted an ebook reader with wifi and net access, and this worked out to be the cheapest I could find with everything I'd want to use it for (reading pdfs and occasionally checking email, or downloading more pdfs).

akigr8 wrote:Love your avatar, bad to the bone. :)


:lol: I think you're the first to recognise it, or at least the first to mention it.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#13  Postby Teshi » Jun 07, 2010 1:49 pm

Yeah he seems to be trying to make some massive counter-intuitive point probably in order to sell a few books


To me, this seems intuitive. Why is it necessarily un-intuitive?
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#14  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 08, 2010 1:49 am

Teshi wrote:
Yeah he seems to be trying to make some massive counter-intuitive point probably in order to sell a few books


To me, this seems intuitive. Why is it necessarily un-intuitive?


The idea that paying people more money results in worse performance isn't counter-intuitive? Granted it's not as wacky as quantum mechanics, and we can think up good reasons why it would occur, but surely most people would think that more money = more work? Hence the main thrust of his presentation in the video above was: "This and this makes sense, right? Wrong! Here's why I think this is...".
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#15  Postby Teshi » Jun 08, 2010 2:41 pm

Seems okay to me. I think people could easily work well up to a point and then once they are wealthy or the money they are making is ludicrous they would stop thinking about the work and start thinking about the money. It reaches a point it's not about what you do, it's about how soon you finish so you can get to the large chunk of money.

I'm not saying it's correct. I'm just saying I don't find it unduly counter-intuitive. I know my own work habits aren't linked to money very strongly.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#16  Postby jaydot » Jun 13, 2010 9:01 pm

Mr.Samsa wrote:
jaydot wrote:so how come linux?


Is that aimed at me, or the OP?


you mr samsa. by your reasoning linux shouldn't exist.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#17  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 14, 2010 1:08 am

jaydot wrote:
Mr.Samsa wrote:
jaydot wrote:so how come linux?


Is that aimed at me, or the OP?


you mr samsa. by your reasoning linux shouldn't exist.


:scratch: I'm not sure how my reasoning invalidates linux. Monetary reward is far from the only incentive (which is perhaps another flaw in Dan Pink's reasoning). Can you point out exactly which part of my post you disagree with (or you think disagrees with the linux philosophy) and I'll try to figure out where I went wrong, or worded it wrong, etc?
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#18  Postby jaydot » Jun 14, 2010 1:50 pm

i do beg your pardon mr samsa. misreading again. i missed the hyperlink in your post and went way off course.
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Re: Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us

#19  Postby Mr.Samsa » Jun 14, 2010 11:43 pm

jaydot wrote:i do beg your pardon mr samsa. misreading again. i missed the hyperlink in your post and went way off course.


No problem :cheers:
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