At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most handsome- and beautiful-looking. How is it that the "nerd" (who is often judged unattractive in our culture) can still possess the mental power to make straight A's?

Scott H wrote:At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most handsome- and beautiful-looking.

Hmm, I guess physical attractiveness has some potential to influence scoring in one's favour. However, intelligence alone should get someone to the top of their class.

Scott H wrote:How is it that the "nerd" (who is often judged unattractive in our culture) can still possess the mental power to make straight A's?

Er, because they're a nerd. Aren't nerds the one's with the mental abilities? It's not like they're putting their photos on exam papers... are they?

However, to answer the question in the thread title: well, aren't things a-changin'?

Unattractive nerds? Gosh! That's so last century!

Scott H wrote:At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most handsome- and beautiful-looking. How is it that the "nerd" (who is often judged unattractive in our culture) can still possess the mental power to make straight A's?

No? Intelligence and attractiveness aren't related. Hell, one can be intelligent and not be a nerd. One can be a nerd and still not be intelligent in any meaningful way.

Dress sense. Peacocks have it! Though, it can be under, or over done. A bit like dancing, too many exaggerated movements fails to attract the potential mate, too much inertia, looks like you cant be bothered, not an attractive trait.

The label "nerd" carries more labels with it than just being intelligent. It also implies that the person is socially inept. But if we were to come up with a list of jobs that women would find attractive in a man, I suspect we'd have a lot of jobs that assume a high level of intelligence or at least talent beyond simply looking good.

LucidFlight wrote:However, to answer the question in the thread title: well, aren't things a-changin'?

Unattractive nerds? Gosh! That's so last century!

Well sure, nerdy girls are sexy! No one can resist those glasses.

I think men, on the other hand, would have it more difficult, as we are encouraged to have hulking, muscular bodies in order to attract the opposite sex. If the thinness or obesity of a male nerd (as well as habits such as nosepicking and so on) is so unattractive, how can it coexist with such high intelligence?

matt8819 wrote:No? Intelligence and attractiveness aren't related. Hell, one can be intelligent and not be a nerd. One can be a nerd and still not be intelligent in any meaningful way.

You'd surely think intelligence and attractiveness were related in some way. After all, you need to be at least somewhat healthy to think intelligently.

Scott H wrote:

matt8819 wrote:No? Intelligence and attractiveness aren't related. Hell, one can be intelligent and not be a nerd. One can be a nerd and still not be intelligent in any meaningful way.

You'd surely think intelligence and attractiveness were related in some way. After all, you need to be at least somewhat healthy to think intelligently.

Stephen Hawking.

Nerd is often a perjorative term that reflects a lot more than just book smarts. This is why conventionally attractive people who also happen to be obscenely smart are rarely derided as nerds.

Yoof, has a big say on potential attractiveness, its miss guided. X Factor anyone? Fans.

Scott H wrote:

LucidFlight wrote:However, to answer the question in the thread title: well, aren't things a-changin'?

Unattractive nerds? Gosh! That's so last century!

Well sure, nerdy girls are sexy! No one can resist those glasses.

I think men, on the other hand, would have it more difficult, as we are encouraged to have hulking, muscular bodies in order to attract the opposite sex. If the thinness or obesity of a male nerd (as well as habits such as nosepicking and so on) is so unattractive, how can it coexist with such high intelligence?

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that one needs to be attractive to be intelligent.

And you're still making the assumption that intelligence=nerd. Lots of intelligent guys are attractive. Lots of attractive guys are fuckin morons. The only correlation is the one you assume exists.

If "Miss World Contestants" are so attractive, why are they "dumb"?

At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most intelligent. How is it that the "Miss World Contestant" (who are often judged dumb in our culture) can still possess the beauty to win the swimsuit competition?

matt8819 wrote:

Scott H wrote:You'd surely think intelligence and attractiveness were related in some way. After all, you need to be at least somewhat healthy to think intelligently.

Stephen Hawking.

He is at least somewhat healthy!

matt8819 wrote:I don't know how you came to the conclusion that one needs to be attractive to be intelligent.

I didn't.

Scott H wrote:

matt8819 wrote:

Scott H wrote:You'd surely think intelligence and attractiveness were related in some way. After all, you need to be at least somewhat healthy to think intelligently.

Stephen Hawking.

He is at least somewhat healthy!

matt8819 wrote:I don't know how you came to the conclusion that one needs to be attractive to be intelligent.

I didn't.

Then I'm sorry, but I still don't understand what you're trying to say. You said that there should be a link between attractiveness and intelligence, then that it should be a link instead between health and intelligence. Are you just confused how intelligence and attractiveness aren't related? I'm confused.

I'd question whether this whole social phenomena is just an illusion.

I'm just making up stats here. But lets assume that we can split society into 5 groups. Very attractive/attractive/average/unattractive/very unattractive. And population split is 20%/20%/20%/20%/20%.

I finished high school not too long ago. And we'd probably consider someone extremely smart if their end-of-year score was in the 95th percentile or above.

In a class of 100 students, 5 are going to make the top 5% (obviously). One is going to be very attractive, one is going to be kinda attractive and 3 are going to be average or less. Now, these 3 are going to get labelled "nerds" as a result. They also take up the majority of kids in the group.

When you take the other 95 students. There are going to be 19 very attractive kids. 19 kinda attractive kids. And 57 kids average or below. But no one takes note of the average looking kids in mainstream classes, they are completely off the radar. The cool/fit/sport-y kids get all the spotlight, and that might give the illusion that kids in mainstream classes are usually healthier/fitter/more attractive ect...

If an unattractive person is smart, they are more likely to have the spotlight put on them. Thats what I reckon anyway.

It is probably true that smarter people generally do less sport and might not be as "fit". But it would only account for small variations (where I'm from anyway).

Scott H wrote:At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most handsome- and beautiful-looking. How is it that the "nerd" (who is often judged unattractive in our culture) can still possess the mental power to make straight A's?

I would think because nerds are often not very socially compatible. They are considered weird, freaky.
Depends on how nerdy the person is, of course. How a person dresses, how a person walks, how it styles the hair, how much confidence it radiates. How the person communicates with you. I happen to have a lot of -sometimes very- nerdy friends and I usually enjoy their company if we happen to find a topic that we both find interesting and wish to ponder about. One problem I observed with many though...is that they keep talking about their passion even if you clearly signal you're NOT interested in talking about it in the first place. Worse if you're actually doing something else that needs your concentration and you get distracted. I'm sure this is a turn-off in terms of attractiveness. I would never say any of my nerdy friends is stupid, far from it...but they definitely lack social skills, BIG TIME, gender unrelated by the way.

LIFE wrote:I would never say any of my nerdy friends is stupid, far from it...but they definitely lack social skills, BIG TIME, gender unrelated by the way.

As a side note, the whole concept of "social skills" just seems to be a way for people to blur the boundary between what is morally right and what is superficially entertaining. A way to scapegoat the ugly (as usual!).

Scott H wrote:At first, you'd think that because intelligence and and physical attractiveness are both indicators of fitness, those scoring at the top of their classes would be the most handsome- and beautiful-looking. [...]

No, I wouldn't think that actually.
Why should one individual possess "both indicators of fitness"?

Scott H wrote:

LIFE wrote:I would never say any of my nerdy friends is stupid, far from it...but they definitely lack social skills, BIG TIME, gender unrelated by the way.

As a side note, the whole concept of "social skills" just seems to be a way for people to blur the boundary between what is morally right and what is superficially entertaining. A way to scapegoat the ugly (as usual!).

What is more fitting to what I meant is interpersonal communication. There's a type of nerd that simply hasn't trained his abilities to feedback and reflect in a way that is beneficial to successful communication and increase the likelihood of being perceived as attractive by whoever receives what is being sent. Of course that's just one factor of many.

I never got the difference between nerds and geeks.

On nerds, if I were to make a guess I'll say the pejorative emphasizes not their intelligence, distinctive though it is about them, but the social awkwardness. So they're one step above savants. Intelligent in their limited chosen field of specialization but not too smart otherwise.