Male Directed AKA anti-male Sexism

Nora_Leonard · **#441** by **Nora_Leonard** » Aug 12, 2011 5:39 pm

theropod wrote:
When I tell folks that they have no idea how shitty life can get they usually roll their eyes as if I'm just another old fool that's out of touch with the new and improved lives we enjoy today. Getting fucked over hasn't got an expiration date.

The only response that seems appropriate here is... :hugs:

HughMcB · **#442** by **HughMcB** » Aug 12, 2011 5:50 pm

theropod wrote:Getting fucked over hasn't got an expiration date.

Amen to that.

Saim · **#443** by **Saim** » Aug 28, 2011 8:01 am

I certainly feel like I've faced anti-male sexism in my life. I'm not going to claim that they're anything on par with what, say, the suffragetes had to face or anything. Far from it, as far as bigotry goes it's quite weak. But I do want to see these cultural values changed.

I've heard several times from girls that I shouldn't hug or be physically close with my male friends in any way. Nor should I talk openly about my platonic affection for males. Many girls seem to like it, but others think it's "wrong" even though they pursue the same behaviour with their own same-gender friends. Is this an example of sexism? I think so. Perhaps these values are magnified in high school, as well.

(EDIT: Played down assertions of certainty)

Nora_Leonard · **#444** by **Nora_Leonard** » Aug 28, 2011 8:06 am

Saim wrote:
I've heard several times from girls that I shouldn't hug or be physically close with my male friends in any way. Nor should I talk openly about my platonic affection for males. Many girls seem to like it, but others think it's "wrong" even though they pursue the same behaviour with their own same-gender friends. Is this an example of sexism? I think so. Perhaps these values are magnified in high school, as well.

I don't know if this is an example of sexism, Saim, I think it's more cultural? As there are many cultures, e.g. Italian and Middle Eastern, where male/male heterosexual affection is displayed openly.

Saim · **#445** by **Saim** » Aug 28, 2011 8:14 am

Is there such a big difference, though? I mean, there's surely not a dichotomy between the two ideas. It surely is cultural, but I think it's also rooted in the idea that men are supposed to be emotionless and "masculine" while only women can openly present their affection. In other words, it's a sexist element of the culture.

It is true though that even I found humorous the physical closeness male Pakistani friends seemed comfortable having. Then again, I would and do find it weird for women to show such public displays in the same way. The point where someone says that the way you carry on with your friends is wrong (not just strange, but flat out wrong) because you're a guy kind of makes it seem like sexism to me.

Nora_Leonard · **#446** by **Nora_Leonard** » Aug 28, 2011 8:46 am

Saim wrote:
It is true though that even I found humorous the physical closeness male Pakistani friends seemed comfortable having. Then again, I would and do find it weird for women to show such public displays in the same way. The point where someone says that the way you carry on with your friends is wrong (not just strange, but flat out wrong) because you're a guy kind of makes it seem like sexism to me.

You're right, and I should have acknowledged that. Sorry, Saim.

I know high school can be one trauma after another (and excuse me if I've misunderstood your post), but perhaps you need to tell those girls that "No, I'm not. End of story." And the more unemotional a response you can give, the better it will be as regards getting them to rethink.

Both men and women need to learn to stand up to each other. To not take any nonsense like this.

Actually, a smart girl/woman should realise that a man who is capable of displaying affection to his friends is more likely to be warm and open about his emotions to her.

Saim · **#447** by **Saim** » Aug 28, 2011 9:07 am

I agree, and I definitely didn't just lay down and accept the verbal attacks made by any girls over that issue. Thankfully it's not so ubiquitous, and you're right many girls do accept it or even find it "cute". Certainly among my friendship group it's quite minimal. Indeed, the concept of the "bromance" has been somewhat liberating. Attitudes are changing, I think.
Then again, is the fact that it's even a thing (or a concept with the need of its own name) a form of sexism? I don't think so.

I've also noticed it's decreased with time, especially nearing graduation. Maybe it was just a symptom of some of the worse parts of high school rather than something more deeply wrong with our culture. In any case, I'm just clearing this up with myself, I don't feel particulary traumatized by the experience

(although I was understandably quite upset the times such sentiments were expressed)

Nora_Leonard · **#448** by **Nora_Leonard** » Aug 28, 2011 9:17 am

Saim wrote:
I've also noticed it's decreased with time, especially nearing graduation. Maybe it was just a symptom of some of the worse parts of high school rather than something more deeply wrong with our culture. In any case, I'm just clearing this up with myself, I don't feel particulary traumatized by the experience (although I was understandably quite upset the times such sentiments were expressed)

Yes, I'm not trying to minimise how upsetting these things can be. The main thing is to not let them lead to self-doubt, or attempts to modify our own healthy behaviour to fit into some local society's definition of what's right. Even if you don't say it aloud, it's really important to have an inner voice that says loudly "That is so your problem, not mine." :-)

Male Directed AKA anti-male Sexism

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