Old age...

...and its problems, issues etc.

Discussions about society in general and social activity.

Moderators: Calilasseia, ADParker

Re: Old age...

#41  Postby trubble76 » Jul 15, 2014 5:32 pm

tuco wrote:
laklak wrote:
trubble76 wrote:
On the bright side, the downsides to drug use evaporate, may as well get fucked up. :smoke:


My sentiments exactly. There is no reason not to fire up that bomber. Not having to get up and go to work is bloody marvelous, if I decide to wake-and-bake there's no reason not to.


The problem is that you can rarely, if ever, be sure what's coming. You could even reason that anticipated comings can either be prevented or prepared for. Reason is not quite the adviser it aspires to be.

trubble76 wrote:

[snip]

By the time of his death, he was convinced that both my mum and I were his enemies, even though we put so much into caring for them both. At the end, we were written out of his will, most of it going to relatives that didn't even make the short journey to visit them, either while healthy at home or dying in hospital. Aging can be so very cruel.

[snip]



Reason says its not fair. But what was the alternative? From my experience people like your nan are not exactly happy in institutional care from obvious reasons. How much is a brief moment of clarity, love or joy worth? Reason is overrated. At the end its up to each and every one of us to figure out. Reason or not.

Where I live there are social services for people in situation you describe. Its recommended to take time off for example or not try to handle everything alone. This is where availability of such services to everyone in need is crucial for the scheme to work. And its even cheaper, for the glory of reason ;)


I didn't find the alternatives to be attractive. I'm not a great person, I'm no living saint and I'm sure as hell no hero but the idea of turning my back on the people that cared for me when I was young was not something I was prepared to live with.

It all taught me many different lessons, one of which was that the length of life is far less important that the quality of life. If I survive to an old age, I will almost certainly take my own life when I feel ready.
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose,
And nothin' ain't worth nothin' but it's free.

"Suck me off and I'll turn the voltage down"
User avatar
trubble76
RS Donator
 
Posts: 11205
Age: 44
Male

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Old age...

#42  Postby tuco » Jul 15, 2014 10:58 pm

What happened in the last century or so is that people started to migrate more often and further away from their families for various reasons - jobs, independence, environment. Traditional family ties, when two and more generations used to live under one roof, been broken.

For some people it could be sometimes difficult to follow up on such ties especially when not ideal initially. I've been told by clients that they did not want to hinder their families. Question is, why hindrance, but they seem to prefer not being with them.

People who do not know what the fuck is going on still feel. Institutional feel is, for objective reasons, not as lets say kind. And when it comes to ethical issues, involving rights of such people, there are excesses in both, home and institutional care.

As I said, situation which feels unbearable for both parties is probably not ideal despite perceived or alleged duty. If its not voluntary it does not work too well. There is no single solution to fit all. Moral philosophy applied.
tuco
 
Posts: 15543

Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#43  Postby Agrippina » Jul 16, 2014 7:04 am

You sound like my children Sendraks. They tell me not to worry about leaving them money, just to enjoy myself. So when we spend money on something we want, we don't get 'but why do you need a new...' like some parents do. They just enjoy the fact that we're still interested in upgrading our technology.

For me, my biggest fear is losing my mind. I'm terrified that I'll become like my mother in her last year when she didn't know who I was, and recognised only the family members who hardly ever visited her but kept seeing me as some sort of caregiver who took her money. If I become like that, I'd like someone to just give me some pills to overdose on.
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#44  Postby Fallible » Jul 17, 2014 3:40 pm

I told my parents much the same. They've struggled all their lives, finally have a bit of spare money and deserve to do what they want with it. I'm an adult, I'm not their responsibility any more. I'm supposed to be making my own way, not waiting till they pop off so I can buy stuff. When my mum gives me a present, her excuse is that she gets her enjoyment out of giving presents and she tells me to shut up complaining. :roll:
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#45  Postby kennyc » Jul 17, 2014 3:47 pm

Life is not a journey to the grave with intentions of arriving safely in a pretty well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming ... WOW! What a ride!
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#46  Postby laklak » Jul 18, 2014 2:46 am

:this:

But the reality for most people is they go out sitting in a nappy full of shit with tasteless custard dribbling down their chin.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way. - Mark Twain
The sky is falling! The sky is falling! - Chicken Little
I never go without my dinner. No one ever does, except vegetarians and people like that - Oscar Wilde
User avatar
laklak
RS Donator
 
Name: Florida Man
Posts: 20878
Age: 66
Male

Country: The Great Satan
Swaziland (sz)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#47  Postby Agrippina » Jul 18, 2014 7:42 am

Indeed. One of the reasons I resisted moving to a retirement village is exactly that. I see it around me all the time, and it's depressing. I think that when the time comes for the custard to drool, you should have the option to get someone to give you the kindly overdose.
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Old age...

#48  Postby kennyc » Jul 18, 2014 10:21 am

And as if right on que:

Assisted dying law would lessen suffering says Falconer

Legalising assisting dying would mean "less suffering not more deaths", a leading campaigner has said as peers debate the issue in the House of Lords.

Lord Falconer said a "limited" change was needed to the law to give the terminally ill choice on their deaths.

He insisted that the "final decision must always be made by the patient", with safeguards to prevent "abuse and pressure" on the vulnerable.

But critics say the bill is flawed and predicated on uncertain diagnoses.

Lord Falconer's bill which would allow doctors to prescribe a lethal dose to terminally ill patients judged to have less than six months to live.

About 130 peers have requested to speak in a debate on the subject, which started shortly after 10:00 BST.

'Lonely death'
The bill is expected to get a second reading in the Lords, but without government backing MPs are unlikely to get a chance to debate it in the Commons, meaning it will not become law.

Prime Minister David Cameron has said he is not "convinced" by the arguments for legalising assisted dying but the bill has won the backing of Lib Dem Care Minister Norman Lamb.
....


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-28352680
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#49  Postby Agrippina » Jul 18, 2014 4:35 pm

I watched my sister slowly deteriorate due to breast cancer. She was diagnosed and for two years went through the hell of chemo, and other treatment, and eventually landed at hospice. She spent two weeks there, waiting to die, and didn't so they sent her home. She spent another week at home, not able to eat, battling to move about, couldn't bathe herself, and eventually two days before she died, hospice let her back in. Then she starved to death. I won't let that happen to me. I want dignity, which is why I wholly support assisted suicide. If I can't get it, I'll stockpile sleeping pills and do myself in when the moment is right.
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#50  Postby epepke » Jul 18, 2014 4:51 pm

It'll be two years before I get my government pension. It won't make me rich, but it will be enough to survive on and supplement whatever else I make, because I haven't the slightest intention of not working, ever, just working on things that are more to my liking. That is, unless some raving Republican uses the money to get gerbils to put up his butt, which is always a possibility. Ten more years until Social Security and Medicaid and Medicare as well, and things will be pretty nice, even if not perfect.

An old high school classmate of mine died from esophageal cancer last year. This may not sound like much, but it was out of a class of something like 28. The health care biz is getting pretty settled in the US, not perfect, but manageable. Very affordable and quite on the up-side of adequate. I also know that one can get top-notch care when totally broke for acute conditions. Then there's the diabetes, but insulin is $25 a month at Walmart. Besides, I was an awful lot sicker when I was younger.
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#51  Postby Fallible » Jul 19, 2014 1:54 am

I...you have to buy insulin?? Fuck, of course you do. Jesus.
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
User avatar
Fallible
RS Donator
 
Name: Alice Pooper
Posts: 51607
Age: 48
Female

Country: Engerland na na
Canada (ca)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#52  Postby Sciwoman » Jul 19, 2014 3:51 am

Fallible wrote:I...you have to buy insulin?? Fuck, of course you do. Jesus.

Yeah, I have to buy the meds for my rheumatoid arthritis. One of them retails for about $2600 a month, but because I have decent insurance I only pay about $17 a month. I pay about $10 a month for the other one and around another $10 a month for the one that prevents to worst side effects of the second one.

I worry about getting older. I have no children and my husband is 12 and a half years older than I am. I worry about my mother getting older. She's in her earlier 70's and married to a man who is about 12 years younger, but at some point, she is going to need help, whether it is her husband or her children. There are days I can barely take care of myself, much less anyone else.

If things ever get bad enough, I hope I am able to take care of myself or at least am able to put an end to it on my own. I have several chronic conditions and the best I can hope for as I get older is that things will stabilize and not get too much worse. Worst case scenario is that I'll get to the point where I am barely able to move and will need around the clock care. Hopefully, I'll have the option to put an end to all of it rather than live alone and in severe, chronic pain.
Religion is not the answer-it is the problem. Everything considered, we would be better off without it.~Baubles of Blasphemy~Edwin F. Kagin
User avatar
Sciwoman
RS Donator
 
Name: AKA Ayaan
Posts: 916
Female

United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#53  Postby Agrippina » Jul 19, 2014 6:28 am

Our co-pay on all my DH's diabetes medicine is around R100 a month, which is about 10 of western currencies. Mine are all paid for by our insurance. We could get it all free on the government but we choose to use the insurance we pay for because of the benefits if we should need to go to hospital, and be able to see the medical professionals of our choice.
Illegitimi non carborundum
User avatar
Agrippina
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 36690
Age: 109
Female

Country: South Africa
South Africa (za)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#54  Postby epepke » Jul 19, 2014 11:42 am

Fallible wrote:I...you have to buy insulin?? Fuck, of course you do. Jesus.


Ayup. And syringes, but they're only $12.50 for 100.

There are free insulin programs, but you pretty much have to live in your own house and be female and probably also dead to quality. OK, I'm only slightly exaggerating here.

You can get free glucometers, but the replacement strips are dear.

On the other hand, it's all over the counter, except for stuff like Lantis, which isn't good anyway. I used to have interesting conversations with people who thought that handing out free syringes and needles was a good thing to do. I had them stop the car, whereupon I walked into any drug store (chemist) and came out with a 15¢ syringe.

I spent some years off and on doing research into why addicts share needles. There is some fear that the bore isn't big enough and don't want to wait for the heroin to dissolve that much, but a lot of addicts do use insulin syringes. Also, they do work for IV as an off-label use. They can even draw blood, though it's probably hæmolized, but who cares?

Instead it appears to be a status and social thing. If you have nice "works," you want to share them. It's like passing a joint or pipe or giving someone a ride on your Harley. Shame that it kills so many people, though. Still, needle exchange programs don't appear effective, especially if you consider that the lines to them are great places to score. I've heard of some that are supposed to work, but I don't know what they do differently.

In any event, the fact that so many people don't know you can get syringes with needles OTC makes me roll my eyes a bit. Even lots of physicians don't know this, and it's their job to know these sorts of things. So many docs have offered to write me insulin prescriptions and are surprised when I tell them they aren't necessary. They also don't know that Walmart has the cheap stuff, and everywhere else the same stuff, even the same brand, runs $70 to $100. Even Costco, which I much prefer for their employment practices, is expensive. So I hold my nose and go to Walmart and don't buy anything else there.

Delivery sucks because how do you know what temperatures the package has been exposed to? Same for condoms, another life-saving invention. Buy a condom in Florida in summer, which lasts about 11 months, and you might as well pray to Cthulhu. But I digress, which I do a lot.
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#55  Postby Scot Dutchy » Jul 19, 2014 5:12 pm

Agrippina wrote:I watched my sister slowly deteriorate due to breast cancer. She was diagnosed and for two years went through the hell of chemo, and other treatment, and eventually landed at hospice. She spent two weeks there, waiting to die, and didn't so they sent her home. She spent another week at home, not able to eat, battling to move about, couldn't bathe herself, and eventually two days before she died, hospice let her back in. Then she starved to death. I won't let that happen to me. I want dignity, which is why I wholly support assisted suicide. If I can't get it, I'll stockpile sleeping pills and do myself in when the moment is right.


My late girlfriend went through that but luckily we live in a country that allowed her to end her life.
Myths in islam Women and islam Musilm opinion polls


"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.” — Napoleon Bonaparte
User avatar
Scot Dutchy
 
Posts: 43119
Age: 71
Male

Country: Nederland
European Union (eur)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Old age...

#56  Postby smudge » Jul 19, 2014 7:58 pm

Anecdotally it seems when people retire they often lose that bit of oomph. This could well be the fact that they are just older and so do lack the oomph because of this. It could also be that no longer having get up, go out, and do stuff 5 days a week they lose the desire to do anything and so the ability also dissipates quickly.
I can't help wondering if keeping busy at something - work, voluntary, active time consuming hobby - makes a difference.
Thoughts?
User avatar
smudge
 
Posts: 2714
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#57  Postby Beatsong » Jul 19, 2014 8:29 pm

tuco wrote:What happened in the last century or so is that people started to migrate more often and further away from their families for various reasons - jobs, independence, environment. Traditional family ties, when two and more generations used to live under one roof, been broken.


This subject is a bit close to the bone for me because my mother is just entering end-game territory, in another country on the other side of the world. Actually I'm flying out to see her in a few weeks, but that's not something I can do very often. My brothers live near her and more or less look after her, but they're a bit rubbish. OTOH who am I to criticise, when I'm not even there to help at all?

Another thing I would add to the point made above by tuco and others, is the effect of people having children later. This has stretched the size of generations, to the point where middle aged working adults are often still busy caring for their own kids at the time when their parents get old and need caring for. I was the youngest in my family and my parents were in their late thirties when I was born (which was unusual in those days). I was then in my late thirties before I started having my own kids. As a result, I'm now a stressed out over-stretched working and caring dad, at the same time as my mum is needing more help. If you subtracted 10 years from both of those generations (as would have been more normal in the old days), my own kids would be long gone and independent before I was having to deal with the other side of things. As it is, there's just not enough of me to go around. Being on the other side of the world doesn't help of course, but even that would be easier to work around if I didn't have to consider school term times, childcare duties etc.

It's easy to criticize people for not having time for the elderly, but in many cases it may come down to precisely this - that more of those people still have their time taken up with the youngerly. Whatcha gonna do?
NEVER WRONG. ESPECIALLY WHEN I AM.
User avatar
Beatsong
 
Posts: 7027

United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#58  Postby kennyc » Jul 19, 2014 9:05 pm

smudge wrote:Anecdotally it seems when people retire they often lose that bit of oomph. This could well be the fact that they are just older and so do lack the oomph because of this. It could also be that no longer having get up, go out, and do stuff 5 days a week they lose the desire to do anything and so the ability also dissipates quickly.
I can't help wondering if keeping busy at something - work, voluntary, active time consuming hobby - makes a difference.
Thoughts?



I think it absolutely makes a difference!

just my anecdotal observations though...
Kenny A. Chaffin
Art Gallery - Photo Gallery - Writing&Poetry
"Strive on with Awareness" - Siddhartha Gautama
User avatar
kennyc
 
Name: Kenny A. Chaffin
Posts: 8698
Male

Country: U.S.A.
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#59  Postby smudge » Jul 20, 2014 7:03 am

kennyc wrote:
smudge wrote:Anecdotally it seems when people retire they often lose that bit of oomph. This could well be the fact that they are just older and so do lack the oomph because of this. It could also be that no longer having get up, go out, and do stuff 5 days a week they lose the desire to do anything and so the ability also dissipates quickly.
I can't help wondering if keeping busy at something - work, voluntary, active time consuming hobby - makes a difference.
Thoughts?



I think it absolutely makes a difference!

just my anecdotal observations though...



Yeh....but it's what we would like to believe isn't it? Because we think "when I get old and retire I'll keep active and busy and involved". Some concrete evidence would be nice, eh?
User avatar
smudge
 
Posts: 2714
Male

Country: UK
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Old age...

#60  Postby Doubtdispelled » Jul 20, 2014 9:26 am

smudge wrote:
kennyc wrote:
smudge wrote:Anecdotally it seems when people retire they often lose that bit of oomph. This could well be the fact that they are just older and so do lack the oomph because of this. It could also be that no longer having get up, go out, and do stuff 5 days a week they lose the desire to do anything and so the ability also dissipates quickly.
I can't help wondering if keeping busy at something - work, voluntary, active time consuming hobby - makes a difference.
Thoughts?



I think it absolutely makes a difference!

just my anecdotal observations though...



Yeh....but it's what we would like to believe isn't it? Because we think "when I get old and retire I'll keep active and busy and involved". Some concrete evidence would be nice, eh?

Oooh, you want concrete evidence? :lol:

I can give you some! I'm semi-retired, receiving my pension, am still self-employed as a dressmaker, and have a little job as an invigilator. I haven't actually been doing or seeking much sewing work lately though as I have had another project, one involving concrete and plaster...

I can quite proudly say that I have just finished totally renovating the sitting room of our old cottage, a job which had been awaiting attention for years while I was working outside the home.

It has taken me a long time, months and months in fact, the main reason being that previous work done by former owners was so very bad that it all had to be re-done. I started by re-pointing the large brick fireplace with the age-appropriate lime plaster after having first painstakingly removed the grey render with which some idiot had tried to repair it years ago, built a new slate hearth (which is where the concrete comes in 8-) ), installed a new woodburner, then moved on to the ceiling, putting up new plaster board between the beams, re-plastered all around the top of the walls and some areas of damaged plaster on the front wall, re-wired the lighting, chasing in the cables and the tv aerial cable, painted the whole lot including re-varnishing the beams, laid new cork floor tiles after levelling some areas of the floor which were rather uneven, and finally renewed all the skirting boards.

:dance:

I'm a bit knackered now, but the exercise, particularly that of laying the floor tiles, made me think that maybe I should take up some form of yoga, because - tiring as it was - it did make me feel good.....
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

― Mark Twain
Doubtdispelled
 
Posts: 11836

Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Sociology

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest