Twitter is banning women who "speak out against the dangerous dogma of trans ideology," a feminist group has said.

In a letter to Twitter director Martha Lane Fox, Fair Play for Women says the company is allowing "a concerted attack on women's free speech".

But trans activist Ashleigh Talbot said the group's letter seeks to "whip up" hatred against trans people....

....The campaigning group Man Friday argues allowing people to self-identify as a particular gender "removes any gatekeeping to women's identity and protected spaces".

To protest against any change to the law, the group choose Fridays to identify as men and take part in activities such as using male changing rooms.

On Friday a group of women attempted to access the men's only bathing pond in Hampstead Heath as part of a protest against self-identification.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44288431

Disapproving of transsexualism =/= hating transsexuals. Don't shoot the messenger; hate the sin not the sinner etc.

What's the sin in this case?

There are several main objections to transsexualism that I'm currently aware of, although there are also several positive aspects to it I am currently aware of. Weighing them up is very tricky IMO if the objective is to have an accurate opinion on the subject. I wouldn't be so bold as to say I'm definitely there yet.

OK, but what's the sin you refer to?

These protesters seem to think it's a sin. I think it likely the nominally feminist protesters mentioned in the article primarily object in that they think transsexualism perpetuates sexist gender role stereotypes, for example.

From a cursory reading, it seems like they feel transgenderism takes something away from them as women, part of their identity or something. I suppose I can see how if you are strongly invested in your identity as a woman, perhaps spending a long time fighting to be recognised etc, that would bother you. Personally, I can't get that worked up about it. I'm pretty laisez faire about these things. I can't see how it takes away from me if someone becomes aware that they were born in the wrong body and takes steps to change that.

Some people "become aware" that the koran is the most beautiful book ever written and of unparalleled wisdom and veracity, if you catch my drift.

No, sorry, I don't, been on some pretty heavy duty painkillers recently. I'm still a bit fuzzy. Can you explain a bit more?

I hope the painkillers are doing what they're supposed to. The cocodamol I was taking recently really wasn't up to the job. What I really meant, in a nutshell, is that those with gender dysphoria might well think they've been born in the wrong body, but that does not necessarily make it true. Summit like that.

Keep It Real wrote:I hope the painkillers are doing what they're supposed to. The cocodamol I was taking recently really wasn't up to the job. What I really meant, in a nutshell, is that those with gender dysphoria might well think they've been born in the wrong body, but that does not necessarily make it true. Summit like that.

Modern technology permits us to do all sorts of things that weren't possible 2 centuries ago, like travel across the Atlantic in 6 to 8 hours, depending on the winds. Fear of flying used not to be an issue.

I read what you posted in the OP, and what stood out to me were concepts like "gatekeeping" and "safe spaces".

I'd imagine safe spaces need gatekeepers. Wouldn't be so safe if just anyone could walk in, plus the puppies might get out and get squished in the road. That would be a major bummer.

Safe space = no men around? Because women are always delightful toward eachother and men are pure danger?

Keep It Real wrote:I hope the painkillers are doing what they're supposed to. The cocodamol I was taking recently really wasn't up to the job. What I really meant, in a nutshell, is that those with gender dysphoria might well think they've been born in the wrong body, but that does not necessarily make it true. Summit like that.

No? What else would make it true?

Well, quite. IMHO it's basically technically impossible to be "born in the wrong body" but perhaps that'd be me being a little too brash and arrogant. I really wish the ghost of Descartes could somehow make an appearance to help out in some of these threads.

Well, that was my phrasing. The gist is that I can't get worked up enough about a handful of people who would feel 100 times happier if they lived out the remainder of their lives as a gender they were not born into to be against it. I suppose it helps that I don't base my sense of self much on being a woman. I am one, and I feel like that's what I'm 'supposed' to be. When someone shoots their mouth off about what 'women' are like that riles me, because usually, nope, I'm not. Beyond that, I have as much not in common with other women as I do in common with them. I'm also a white Westerner, but it would be a bit stupid to champion the cause of all white Westerners on that basis alone. I can't fucking stand vast swathes of them. Same with women. What I'm saying is it doesn't affect me at all if a biological man would rather self-identify as a woman, because my gender is not something that I feel needs protecting like an endangered species. There are literally billions of them and many of them are embarrassing, annoying fucking idiots.

I agree, and am not exactly worked up about adult trans stuff, just that I'd like to see more logical therapeutic solutions to prevent and cure gender dysphoria. As things stand there is 0 prevention etc currently in place and I often seem to find the fact of devastating genital and hormonal surgery, especially on children, well...uncomfortable come horrific TBH. Cheery little comment eh...soz.

Those devestating procedures are performed to prevent suicide, which is through the roof amongst trans teens. They're not readily available in most places and those who do have access to and utilise or prescribe and perform such services don't embark on them lightly.

The TERFs can go fuck themselves. Their rights to free speech do not extend to being able to spout their bigoted dogma on Twitter.

It does make me wonder as I believe I see two contradictory viewpoints expressed by various groups.

On the one hand there are people who advance a viewpoint that basically says that gender is a social construct that doesn't really biologically exist, and on the other hand there are people who insist they're born the wrong gender, and that the biological "equipment" they were born with is significantly diagnostic of their gender identity. I'm not sure whether they're the same people saying both things, or whether they're actually two opposing groups. Or whether they are even aware of the implied contradiction.

I suppose the former group could basically just respond that it is the surrounding society that has indoctrinated them to think that the gender-identity experienced by the latter is them falling victim to a social construct of some sort. But then doesn't that imply that the people who feel they've been born the wrong gender should instead come to realize that their problem isn't actually their physical attributes, but their self-image imposed on them by the surrounding culture? That they can in fact be a man with boobs and a vagina (sorry for implying these could go together) or whatever other organ package they desire?

Rumraket wrote:It does make me wonder as I believe I see two contradictory viewpoints expressed by various groups.

On the one hand there are people who advance a viewpoint that basically says that gender is a social construct that doesn't really biologically exist, and on the other hand there are people who insist they're born the wrong gender, and that the biological "equipment" they were born with is significantly diagnostic of their gender identity. I'm not sure whether they're the same people saying both things, or whether they're actually two opposing groups. Or whether they are even aware of the implied contradiction.

I suppose the former group could basically just respond that it is the surrounding society that has indoctrinated them to think that the gender-identity experienced by the latter is them falling victim to a social construct of some sort. But then doesn't that imply that the people who feel they've been born the wrong gender should instead come to realize that their problem isn't actually their physical attributes, but their self-image imposed on them by the surrounding culture? That they can in fact be a man with boobs and a vagina (sorry for implying these could go together) or whatever other organ package they desire?

I don't think they have to be contradictory.

Gender could be viewed as largely a social construct but how one fits into that is largely determined by biology. Think of it like occupation. Nobody is born a doctor or teacher or trash collector. They are effectively social constructs but people are born with traits that will suit them better for some jobs but not others. But then even somebody who might show a strong aptitude for one occupation at an early age may later find that they would be much happier pursuing a different career.

The question then is what's more important; strictly enforcing how society thinks individuals should fit into these constructs or letting individuals determine what works best for themselves. To that I have to imagine both of the aforementioned sides would prefer the latter.