If you were asked to predict what cultural behavior can be predicted and found in women from a cross section of society and cultures, from different walks of life, from criminals, businesswomen, mothers etc what do you think this would be and what would be the implications of such a high proportion of women exhibiting such compliance? I am asking this question because although both men and women exhibit a wide variety of different behaviors, what sort of behaviors would we expect to find they have most in common. I am excluding here behaviors that are directly biological, like the behavior that are directly related to eating, drinking and excreting and sexual intercourse. So this would include the act of eating, or having sex, but would include more specific behaviors like eating with your hands or chopsticks. It would also include those who lie/do not lie, murder/do not murder are promiscuous/not promiscuous, so any morally linked and judged behaviors are included.

By selecting cultural I am trying to avoid behaviors like smiling, laughing and crying as these are strongly influenced by biology.

The reason I am asking this question is because I think two behaviors standout as being things you could predict to find in any selection of women - or perhaps in one case, more in western, 1st world women.

The first is the wearing of clothes, the second is the removal or armpit and leg hair. I can understand the critical role that clothing plays is displaying status and sexual behavior in socially sanctioned behavior, however the remarkably prevalent behavior of depilation, something seemingly trivial looks like a behavior that is guaranteed to become more universal. It means that I can take a variety of women from al walks in life, be uncertain as to predicting moral, economic etc behavior but be reasonably sure they all remove body hair. I can show that a woman on death row will be very different from a female prime minister or housewife or business executive, but I can be sure they all shave their armpits. How have we been able to achieve such conformity of something so trivial, yet we cannot indoctrinate groups of people as effectively to be honest or law abiding or unselfish, no matter how hard we try? Yet with no obvious incentives a loathing can be induced for a specific behavior, alongside many fashion behaviors that do change, tattoos/no tattoos, piercings, hair and clothing styles, in all women and girls. The fact that the Mediterranean, eastern Europe, and Africa did not really practice this until the last few decades. With increasing exposure to western mores, it's rare to see in celebrities (or if it is paparazzi cash in), or in anonymous women.

Perhaps it's a trivial question and no doubt commercialism drives the adoption of depilatory, yet it's not the whole story.

Shaving of parts is not universal. I can't think of any behaviours that meet your criteria. Every set of behaviours I can find that is universal or near universal seems to have a biological basis rather than cultural.

How could "cultural behavior" across different cultures be universal? Then we do not look for what most women have in common, culturally, but what cultures have in common, and at that point we have to wonder where is this "universal culture" comes from.

I'd agree with "image" - with desire to look pretty by wearing trinkets, make up, scents, bare arms -, however, its not exclusive to women and it seems to be about sex at the end.

Disinterest in me?

Do let me know if you find one which disproves my hypothesis.

Shopping in the lingerie department?

Spearthrower wrote:Shaving of parts is not universal. I can't think of any behaviours that meet your criteria. Every set of behaviours I can find that is universal or near universal seems to have a biological basis rather than cultural.

I agree that body hair removal by women is not universal, however it struck me as strange that if I were to assemble a group of women from al walks of life, I would find it difficcult to predict with any certainty about their behaviors, morals etc. say for example we took a businesswoman, a criminal, a prostitute, a housewife, aside from their common biology, could we predict what they had in common in terms of their morals, their interests, their political opinions etc etc. I think we would struggle to find (without having additional information) what common behaviors they had. I do think that I could say with reasonable certainty (if I were a betting man) that they all removed armpit hair and wore clothes. As I said, the logic behind the wearing of is better understood, but what has made hairless armpits something that women slavishly follow with such consistency? Women dye and shape the hair on their heads, fashions change on lipstick color, body piercings, hair styles, eyt the removal of hair shows no such fashion creativity like plaiting, dyeing, partial shaving or styling.

I am not sure I understand your defintion of biological behaviors, as I would say all behaviors have some biological relationship, however eating, sleeping etc I wold not describe as cultural, but I would describe hair removal as cultural, and we have seen a cultural shift on this in the past few decades.

...that they all removed armpit hair and wore clothes

But the former is not true of all cultures, and the latter is also true of men.

When I say 'biological' I mean, for example, the fact that women are far less likely to engage in violence than men, across all cultures.

tuco wrote:How could "cultural behavior" across different cultures be universal? Then we do not look for what most women have in common, culturally, but what cultures have in common, and at that point we have to wonder where is this "universal culture" comes from.

Are women allowed to join this discussion?

I agree with tuco's point. Perhaps it might be more appropriate to ask about 'social' behaviour? I.e. what do women commonly do when interacting with others?

The_Metatron wrote:Levity aside, The_Metatrix has some idea or other that somehow she influences me to get what she wants. Little does she know everything is always all my decision.

Surely that's not just a female behaviour? Can't men be equally manipulative?

And really...only a shorter beard? But having a beard is okay?

Nora_Leonard wrote:

tuco wrote:How could "cultural behavior" across different cultures be universal? Then we do not look for what most women have in common, culturally, but what cultures have in common, and at that point we have to wonder where is this "universal culture" comes from.

Are women allowed to join this discussion?

I agree with tuco's point. Perhaps it might be more appropriate to ask about 'social' behaviour? I.e. what do women commonly do when interacting with others?

You can only join this discussion if you have hairy armpits, i.e.. a normal man or abnormal woman.

I do not see how the cultural commonality or individual expression changes the oddity of the phenomenon. My original point is that despite that fact all humans are enslaved by cultural norms, we can usually find a significant and related root cause. How is it that something so trivial has become so constant and powerful?

That thing where they compliment other women but really it's a veiled insult...

mattthomas wrote:That thing where they compliment other women but really it's a veiled insult...

What???

Do you mean being sarcastic? Is that purely something women do?

TMB wrote:You can only join this discussion if you have hairy armpits, i.e.. a normal man or abnormal woman.

Nora_Leonard wrote:

mattthomas wrote:That thing where they compliment other women but really it's a veiled insult...

What???

Do you mean being sarcastic? Is that purely something women do?

Nah, I do that with women all the time. Oh, wait!

TMB wrote:I do not see how the cultural commonality or individual expression changes the oddity of the phenomenon. My original point is that despite that fact all humans are enslaved by cultural norms, we can usually find a significant and related root cause. How is it that something so trivial has become so constant and powerful?

Maybe a bit off topic, but I find "enslaved" a bit too strong a word, in my opinion of course.

We're social animals, there exist no true individual. Culture and its norms are an integrate part of what we are.

We're enslaved by cultural norms in much the same way we're enslaved by the reach of our arms and the distance we can see.

quotes fixed, apologies offered.

mindhack wrote:

TMB wrote:

Nora_Leonard wrote:I do not see how the cultural commonality or individual expression changes the oddity of the phenomenon. My original point is that despite that fact all humans are enslaved by cultural norms, we can usually find a significant and related root cause. How is it that something so trivial has become so constant and powerful?

Maybe a bit off topic, but I find "enslaved" a bit too strong a word, in my opinion of course.

We're social animals, there exist no true individual. Culture and its norms are an integrate part of what we are.

We're enslaved by cultural norms in much the same way we're enslaved by the reach of our arms and the distance we can see.

By the way, can I please get you to fix your quotes, as I didn't say this. It must have been TMB?

ETA: Thanks, mindhack.