Why can't we have a utopia?

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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#21  Postby jamest » Dec 13, 2012 9:00 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
laklak wrote:Because the majority of humans are dicks.

:what: I thought it was around 50%?

My estimate would be 75%, me included.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#22  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 9:02 pm

Precambrian Rabbi wrote:Sure, an absolute utopia that was heavenly for every member is impossible,
That's what I am saying.
Precambrian Rabbi wrote:but I think we can arrive at sufficient consensus to create a loose target to get the ball rolling at; peace, universal access to sustenance, freedom from tyranny etc.
Absolutely.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#23  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 9:17 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:Do you really believe that if you were happy all the time, you wouldn't realise that you were happy?
Yep.
Reeve wrote:You might as well say that you can't appreciate anger if you've never been calm.
Yep.


Absolute twaddle.

Let's put this another way: Do you believe that you wouldn't enjoy an orgasm if you had them regularly or would you need to compare them to being stabbed by a needle before you could enjoy them??
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#24  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 9:53 pm

I think you're going to have to define what you mean by 'a utopia', Reeve, before any of us can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone living in a utopia would know diddly about what being stabbed with a needle felt like because no-one would want to do that to another because they were, well, living in a utopia, if you see what I mean.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#25  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 10:18 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:I think you're going to have to define what you mean by 'a utopia', Reeve, before any of us can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone living in a utopia would know diddly about what being stabbed with a needle felt like because no-one would want to do that to another because they were, well, living in a utopia, if you see what I mean.


My definition of a utopia is a society where there is no unnecessary suffering; everyone is free from oppression; there's peace and happiness in general. Everyone is provided for, educated, receives medical care etc. to the best standards possible. The usual ideals really.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#26  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 10:24 pm

Reeve wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:I think you're going to have to define what you mean by 'a utopia', Reeve, before any of us can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone living in a utopia would know diddly about what being stabbed with a needle felt like because no-one would want to do that to another because they were, well, living in a utopia, if you see what I mean.


My definition of a utopia is a society where there is no unnecessary suffering; everyone is free from oppression; there's peace and happiness in general. Everyone is provided for, educated, receives medical care etc. to the best standards possible. The usual ideals really.

Oh, so not a utopia, just a fair and equitable society. One where 18 year old males don't ask 62 year old females questions about their orgasmic experiences, presumably.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#27  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 10:28 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:I think you're going to have to define what you mean by 'a utopia', Reeve, before any of us can answer your questions to your satisfaction.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone living in a utopia would know diddly about what being stabbed with a needle felt like because no-one would want to do that to another because they were, well, living in a utopia, if you see what I mean.


My definition of a utopia is a society where there is no unnecessary suffering; everyone is free from oppression; there's peace and happiness in general. Everyone is provided for, educated, receives medical care etc. to the best standards possible. The usual ideals really.

Oh, so not a utopia, just a fair and equitable society. One where 18 year old males don't ask 62 year old females questions about their orgasmic experiences, presumably.


:hand: You asked me what my definition of a utopia was. Don't dance around with the fucking goal posts.

:lol:
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#28  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 10:45 pm

Reeve wrote:Don't dance around with the fucking goal posts.

:roll: I think you need to stop dancing around with the fucking goalposts. Either that or start again right from the beginning using the correct terminology.

For instance..
Reeve wrote:receives medical care etc.

In a true utopia, no-one would need medical care because no-one would ever get sick.

Now do you see where I am coming from?

:roll:
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#29  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 11:07 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:Don't dance around with the fucking goal posts.

:roll: I think you need to stop dancing around with the fucking goalposts. Either that or start again right from the beginning using the correct terminology.

For instance..
Reeve wrote:receives medical care etc.

In a true utopia, no-one would need medical care because no-one would ever get sick.

Now do you see where I am coming from?

:roll:


:picard: You asked me for what I would call a utopia, didn't you? I don't give a flying fuck what you think a "true utopia" is.

Remember?

Doubtdispelled wrote:I think you're going to have to define what you mean by 'a utopia', Reeve, before any of us can answer your questions to your satisfaction.


My god I didn't think 62 was that old... :mrgreen:
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#30  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 11:23 pm

Those who feel the need to resort to ad hominem are usually deemed to have lost the argument, Reeve.

Maybe it would have been more useful if you had either a) not used the term 'utopia' in the first place, replacing it with 'ideal society', or 'fair society', or something similar: or b) used it and then qualified it by giving your definition so that all participants could understand just what is was that you were talking about.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#31  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 11:30 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:Those who feel the need to resort to ad hominem are usually deemed to have lost the argument, Reeve.

Maybe it would have been more useful if you had either a) not used the term 'utopia' in the first place, replacing it with 'ideal society', or 'fair society', or something similar: or b) used it and then qualified it by giving your definition so that all participants could understand just what is was that you were talking about.


:wall:

Did you ask me what I thought a utopia was?

And did I reply with my idea of one?
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#32  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 11:34 pm

Reeve wrote:Did you ask me what I thought a utopia was?
Yeah, but not before you had got your knickers in a complete twist.
Reeve wrote:And did I reply with my idea of one?
Yeah. And it turned out to be anything but a true utopia.

See how important terminology is, Reeve?

:)
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#33  Postby Reeve » Dec 13, 2012 11:39 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:Did you ask me what I thought a utopia was?
Yeah, but not before you had got your knickers in a complete twist.


Uh...no. :lol:

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:And did I reply with my idea of one?
Yeah. And it turned out to be anything but a true utopia.


So you asked me what my definition was just to tell me how it didn't match your definition...? :confused:

:what:

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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#34  Postby Fallible » Dec 13, 2012 11:39 pm

Clive Durdle wrote:Isn't it an utopia?.......


Is it an unicorn?
She battled through in every kind of tribulation,
She revelled in adventure and imagination.
She never listened to no hater, liar,
Breaking boundaries and chasing fire.
Oh, my my! Oh my, she flies!
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#35  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 11:49 pm

Fallible wrote:
Clive Durdle wrote:Isn't it an utopia?.......


Is it an unicorn?

Of course it is, Fall.
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#36  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 13, 2012 11:51 pm

Reeve wrote:
So you asked me what my definition was just to tell me how it didn't match your definition...? :confused:

:what:

Uh, no, Reeve. I asked you what your definition was just to tell you that it doesn't match most people's definition.

There is a difference, believe it or not.

:roll:
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#37  Postby Fallible » Dec 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Clive Durdle wrote:Isn't it an utopia?.......


Is it an unicorn?

Of course it is, Fall.

Thank you!
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#38  Postby Doubtdispelled » Dec 14, 2012 12:45 am

Fallible wrote:
Doubtdispelled wrote:
Fallible wrote:
Clive Durdle wrote:Isn't it an utopia?.......


Is it an unicorn?

Of course it is, Fall.

Thank you!

:flowers:


;)
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#39  Postby Reeve » Dec 14, 2012 1:03 am

Doubtdispelled wrote:
Reeve wrote:
So you asked me what my definition was just to tell me how it didn't match your definition...? :confused:

:what:

Uh, no, Reeve. I asked you what your definition was just to tell you that it doesn't match most people's definition.

There is a difference, believe it or not.

:roll:


What was the point of doing that? :scratch:
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Re: Why can't we have a utopia?

#40  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Dec 14, 2012 1:26 am

Utopia is like absolute zero or the speed of light. No matter how close you get to it, you still think society sucks compared to what it could be.

We have it a thousand times better than our predecessors and we still complain and wonder if it is right to bring children into this horrible world of ours.

Fuck it. It doesn't get better than this.
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