Why men are more violent than women

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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#81  Postby Rachel Bronwyn » Dec 19, 2018 1:09 am

Or just not basing arguments on shit you don't understand?

"A cell messenger that makes men more aggressive" isn't even a non-technical definition of hormone. It's a misunderstanding.

I don't know why men are disproportionately violent. That's outside my realm of knowledge. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there are a whole bunch of contributing factors though and it's nowhere near as simple as biological differences.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#82  Postby gobshite » Dec 19, 2018 1:14 am

An evolutionary explanation is an enticing idea, and without looking too deeply into it, it sounds reasonable to me. But there's also likely to be a socialisation angle to it as well.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#83  Postby gobshite » Dec 19, 2018 1:15 am

And teh hormonez!
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#84  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 19, 2018 10:35 am

gobshite wrote:
Cito di Pense wrote:
If this discussion required a technical understanding of 'hormone', I'd be more careful, but it does not.


What about just a basic understanding? :ask:


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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#85  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 19, 2018 10:39 am

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:
I don't know why men are disproportionately violent. That's outside my realm of knowledge.


You don't even know that they are. What you maybe know is that men commit most murders and have traditionally been enforcers and soldiers due to their, er, biology. Now that we have machines, women can be enforcers and soldiers, too, and even pilot fighter jets and shoot up villages in which hostiles are known to hang out. Oh, and drown their unwanted babies or stuff them in dumpsters, same as men do, because reasons. Face it, kiddo. People are violent when stressed.

Yes, the record is full of reports of men committing many-splendored violence. Nobody needs a degree in gender studies to figure it out, and then tell us all that they know what the record states, but don't know why.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#86  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 19, 2018 7:53 pm

I'll have another go at the thread title I think - "Why most men are more violent than most women"
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#87  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 19, 2018 8:26 pm

Keep It Real wrote:I'll have another go at the thread title I think - "Why most men are more violent than most women"


Do you think that if you explain why most men are more violent than most women that will make it true? That's philosophy, bro. Really, there are some studies of dubious general validity. Did you know that some cultures are more violent than other cultures? Anthropologists study that kind of shit, so you could read up on it. Wanna have a go at explaining that, too? How about explaining why poor folks are more violent than people with means. There's a song that talks about how some people rob you with a gun, and others do it with a fountain pen. The world is your oyster.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#88  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 19, 2018 8:31 pm

I was just trying to suggest that many women are more violent than many men. Please don't give me any more jobs todo this year, universe. I'm rinsed.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#89  Postby surreptitious57 » Dec 19, 2018 10:12 pm

Some men are more violent than most women would be a more accurate statement to make here

Possible reasons for this :

Hereditary / genetic [ trait passed down the generations from fathers to sons ]
Neurological [ men have a greater disposition toward sociopathy and psycopathy ]
Class [ lower class men have a greater propensity for violence than middle class men ]
Emotional immaturity [ inability to articulate how one feels / talking about them seen as not being manly ]
Psychological [ violence for the sake of violence / doing it simply because of the adrenaline rush it provides ]
Evolutionary psychology [ establishing alpha status within peer group / also widespread in the animal kingdom ]
Economic / social [ no stability in life because uneducated so turn to violence / most male prisoners are lower class ]
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#90  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 19, 2018 10:24 pm

Crikey - given all that, a good question might be "Why are most men not very violent?"
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#91  Postby surreptitious57 » Dec 19, 2018 10:39 pm

Fallible wrote:
You can absolutely control emotion by rationalising it

You have said this before but what makes me sceptical of it is how certain you appear to be
You can certainly control some emotion by rationalising it but this is not true for all emotion
It depends on the emotion in question and the degree to which rationalisation may be effective

In some situations it is entirely useless so it is shades of grey rather than the extremes of black and white
Some one who is schizophrenic or psychotic for example can not come out of that state by rationalisation
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#92  Postby Keep It Real » Dec 20, 2018 4:33 am

It is estimated that one in six men will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime, with very few ever seeking help.

"I know it sounds silly, but you think if someone hurts you, just 'man up and get on with it'," he says.

"I didn't realise there were people out there to actually help."

"It's so under-reported," he explains.

"Males don't recognise they are victims sometimes at all, and don't see what domestic abuse is, and have never known the right paths to go down to get help."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46623723

#methree? :scratch:
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#93  Postby Fallible » Dec 20, 2018 7:34 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fallible wrote:
You can absolutely control emotion by rationalising it

You have said this before but what makes me sceptical of it is how certain you appear to be


It's probably something to do with the fact that I teach people to do it. However, if you're sceptical because I appear certain, that would also be a reason to be sceptical of your own comment.

You can certainly control some emotion by rationalising it but this is not true for all emotion


What is your basis for this statement?

It depends on the emotion in question and the degree to which rationalisation may be effective


Oh right, so the degree to which rationalisation may be effective depends on the degree to which rationalisation may be effective.

In some situations it is entirely useless so it is shades of grey rather than the extremes of black and white


I was responding to your own statement which you made in black and white terms. Now you want to talk about shades of grey. It's trivially true that you're not going to be able to use reason to stop you feeling intense sadness the moment you hear of the loss of a loved one, for example. However for someone experiencing long-term depression, the ability to challenge the thoughts which have led to the depression with logic, evidence and reason really isn't something that is up for much debate any more.

Some one who is schizophrenic or psychotic for example can not come out of that state by rationalisation


Yeah, schizophrenia isn't a 'state', and psychosis isn't an emotion, it's an inability to discern reality. On top of this, no one said anything about bringing someone totally out of a severe mental illness with reason. Taking the most extreme example you can think of to show how reason doesn't work excludes 99.99999999999999% of people with emotions. It's like claiming that humans can't walk around because some of them don't have working legs.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#94  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 20, 2018 8:14 am

Fallible wrote:
surreptitious57 wrote:You can certainly control some emotion by rationalising it but this is not true for all emotion


What is your basis for this statement?


It's a simple fact, Fallible, that a principle of induction can only be applied to a set that is defined inductively. At that point, it is appropriate to ask how the set of emotions that can be controlled by rationalizing them is defined. That's going to go downhill rapidly. Surr doesn't know that it is not true for all emotion, but that's not the point.

As with most stuff of this sort, it helps some of the people some of the time, because we can cite case studies, and so we can say it's better than nothing as long as we can rationalize the cases where it doesn't work. Beyond that, we get back into woofing about why men are more violent than women.
Last edited by Cito di Pense on Dec 20, 2018 8:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#95  Postby Fallible » Dec 20, 2018 8:21 am

Surreptitious, you've changed your avatar and posting style.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#96  Postby newolder » Dec 20, 2018 9:21 am

Surreptitious57 has an avatar? It doesn't appear here. :sherlock:
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#97  Postby Fallible » Dec 20, 2018 11:19 am

Picky get!!

I love Cito’s edits to include something that’s basically useless to anyone but him. Useful to him because it gives him another chance to sneer.
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#98  Postby newolder » Dec 20, 2018 11:35 am

I think this is a case of me reading & writing to the forum before the caffeine had a chance to kick in. Please, continue as if I hadn't posted...
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#99  Postby Fallible » Dec 20, 2018 12:23 pm

:lol:
John Grant wrote:They say 'let go, let go, let go, you must learn to let go'.
If I hear that fucking phrase again, this baby's gonna blow
Into a million itsy bitsy tiny pieces, don't you know,
Just like my favourite scene in Scanners .
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Re: Why men are more violent than women

#100  Postby juju7 » Dec 20, 2018 1:30 pm

Rachel Bronwyn wrote:Or just not basing arguments on shit you don't understand?

"A cell messenger that makes men more aggressive" isn't even a non-technical definition of hormone. It's a misunderstanding.

I don't know why men are disproportionately violent. That's outside my realm of knowledge. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there are a whole bunch of contributing factors though and it's nowhere near as simple as biological differences.


Mainly the way their mothers bring them up.
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