The Design thread

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Re: The Design thread

#121  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Alan B wrote:Yeah. They never caught on with me. I've always been a 'dual-fuel' person - gas hob, electric oven.

Most Americans to whom I speak about gas like the very low thermal intertia most. Big fire = hot, little fire = not as hot, off = off right now. Induction hobs have that same trait. But, with some significant advantages over gas:

Control is everything when cooking. The power output of an induction hob is very precisely controller. In comparison, a gas hob is pretty good at that, also. Maybe not quite as accurate, but probably pretty precise. Meaning that once set, the flame output is unlikely to change much. That would be a function of the main gas pressure regulator for the house, though.

An induction hob has the same low thermal inertia as a gas hob. There's no need to remove a pan from the "burner" as you would with any other form of electric hob to recover from a boilover situation. As with gas, off - off right now. Additionally, there's no overshoot, as you'd experience with a resistive type of electric hob, which you set on high to get a boil, then better be there when it starts to boil or it will overshoot and boil over or burn.

The real advantage with induction is in its efficiency. A gas hob is about 45% efficient, give or take. All other forms of electric hobs except induction are about the same. Most of the heat of combustion of gas is wasted as the hot gases simply flow up and around the sides of the pan. There's no leaving a cooking utensil in a pan if you're using gas, unless you want to burn the shit out of the handle of it. Also, this is one of the reasons that handles on pans get so goddmamned hot when using a gas hob. In the summer time, not dumping all that heat into the kitchen instead of into the pan really makes a difference on how hot the kitchen gets, too.

As for the poor efficiency of either contact or radiant electric hobs, I'm not sure what is the cause. With the hotplate type of electric hob (a standard resistive heating element), the physical contact between the pan and the element is what will limit its efficiency. I would think a similar effect is what is limiting the glass-top radiant type electric hobs, but I haven't looked into it much.

Induction hobs are around 95% efficient. They achieve this by concentrating their energy within the pan itself. It's actually the pan that heats up, and quickly. Heat is produced when there is resistance to the flow of electric current in a conductor. The induction hob works by inducing a rotating current in the pan bottom. If the metal of the pan has resistance to the flow of electrical current, it heats up. This is one of the reasons that non-magnetic pans won't work on an induction hob. They are made of metal that has very low resistance to the flow of electrical current. That, and non-magnetic pans won't concentrate the magnetic lines of flux into their structures as will magnetic pans.

Most stainless steel pans will also work just fine on an induction hob. Cast iron works great, too. I had to dispose of a complete set of goddamned nice Calphalon anodized aluminum pans when I bought my first induction hob in Belgium. I bought All-Clad stainless stuff. I don't recommend that, actually. They aren't any better than other quality stainless steel pans, and cost twice as much. The Carrefour branded pans we could have got locally were just as good, for example.

With the precise temperature control available

It's a dilemma, though. Our gas hob/electric oven is perfectly serviceable, and would probably last for the rest of my life. And, gas is goddamned cheap here in Wyoming. But, I'll probably spring for a new induction range anyway, because I really enjoy the advantages of induction.

That, and my wife, who does most of the cooking for our family likes it. Let the wookie win.
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Re: The Design thread

#122  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 02, 2016 6:24 pm

Well here in the future gas is being phased out. Whole estates are having their gas connections removed. Heat pumps will at present be the main source of heat along with solar panels. We are the bad guy in the environmental stakes at present (mostly thanks to the dairy herds).
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Re: The Design thread

#123  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 02, 2016 7:29 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Well here in the future gas is being phased out. Whole estates are having their gas connections removed. Heat pumps will at present be the main source of heat along with solar panels. We are the bad guy in the environmental stakes at present (mostly thanks to the dairy herds).

Geothermal or air-source heat pumps?
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Re: The Design thread

#124  Postby tuco » Nov 02, 2016 7:39 pm

Very good point about efficiency, I was not aware the difference's that big. Have this IKEA: http://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-desig ... lreda.html .. which I consider to be good design, to be on topic :)
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Re: The Design thread

#125  Postby Alan B » Nov 02, 2016 7:48 pm

"Around 95% efficient"?

Mmmm. :think: I'm having serious thoughts about this new-fangled technology.

ALDI do a dual induction hob for about £60. Might still have some left.
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Re: The Design thread

#126  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 02, 2016 7:49 pm

Standalone tabletop single pad induction plates are available now in the US. We bought one when we were having our gas hob replaced in our house in Oregon. It was also useful when the new hob failed.

Electrolux failed to use nuts to secure the mains power cable lugs to the input power terminal connection points. The lugs were simply hooked over the connection bolts. One went high resistance after it oxidized a bit, got hot, and burned off the end of the mains wire. Just some doofus at the factory who didn't bolt the damned power cable to the control board underneath the cover. The problem was not visible during installation.

By the way, it's Electrolux who makes the electric ranges for Sears under their Kenmore label. To Sears' credit, the fellow who came out to fix it found that problem and had it repaired in no time. He wasn't some swap-monkey who could only troubleshoot by substitution. So, that was good service.

We sometimes use that induction plate, even with the nice gas hob right there at the ready.

I really should do a power cost comparison between gas and electricity here. That might flavor our decision.
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Re: The Design thread

#127  Postby The_Metatron » Nov 02, 2016 7:53 pm

Alan B wrote:"Around 95% efficient"?

Mmmm. :think: I'm having serious thoughts about this new-fangled technology.

ALDI do a dual induction hob for about £60. Might still have some left.

Yeah, it's pretty impressive. ALDI indicates Europe, meaning you probably pay something like twice what I pay for a kWh of power.

Three big users of juice: cooking, drying clothes, and refrigeration. Domestic hot water, if yours is electric.

Anyway, back to the induction thing: not only is it roughly twice as efficient, it is twice as efficient for less time. That's mainly due to the speed at which the pan heats up.

Clever trick: if you're going to fry anything, spread a layer of brown paper on the stove and put your pans on top of the paper. When done cooking, just roll up the paper and recycle it. Stove is perfectly clean.
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Re: The Design thread

#128  Postby felltoearth » Nov 03, 2016 12:33 am

Hey Metatron, maybe a split for the stove part of this thread is in order.
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Re: The Design thread

#129  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 03, 2016 8:59 am

The_Metatron wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Well here in the future gas is being phased out. Whole estates are having their gas connections removed. Heat pumps will at present be the main source of heat along with solar panels. We are the bad guy in the environmental stakes at present (mostly thanks to the dairy herds).

Geothermal or air-source heat pumps?


Geothermal.

My office where I worked switched to a geothermal pump about 10 years ago. It is very efficient form of heating.
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Re: The Design thread

#130  Postby felltoearth » Nov 04, 2016 5:31 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
The_Metatron wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Well here in the future gas is being phased out. Whole estates are having their gas connections removed. Heat pumps will at present be the main source of heat along with solar panels. We are the bad guy in the environmental stakes at present (mostly thanks to the dairy herds).

Geothermal or air-source heat pumps?


Geothermal.

My office where I worked switched to a geothermal pump about 10 years ago. It is very efficient form of heating.


How big was the geothermal field and where did they locate it?
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Re: The Design thread

#131  Postby Scot Dutchy » Nov 04, 2016 6:01 pm

It was in the grounds of the office. Two pumps about 10 metres apart. We had drilling rigs going down almost 25 metres.
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Re: The Design thread

#132  Postby DougC » Dec 01, 2016 1:56 am

B.B.C. - Dame Zaha Hadid's Brit Awards statuette design unveiled

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Re: The Design thread

#133  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 01, 2016 9:49 am

Well you can get your hand around it and do some fearsome damage.
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Re: The Design thread

#134  Postby Alan B » Dec 01, 2016 10:22 am

Jeez! That's vicious. Are these 'designers' running out of ideas like the 'fashion' industry?
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Re: The Design thread

#135  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 01, 2016 10:33 am

Is there a 'fashion' industry these days? The clothes in the shops are terrible. I am down to one shop for clothes now and one 20 years ago would not have been seen dead in.

People have no morals when buying clothes. Shops like Primarkt are flourishing. People dont stop and think how a t-shirt can be made for €3.

I never buy anything that is not made in Europe. It is still possible.
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Re: The Design thread

#136  Postby archibald » Dec 01, 2016 10:36 am

DougC wrote:B.B.C. - Dame Zaha Hadid's Brit Awards statuette design unveiled


To be fair, I think there's more to the concept.

"Hadid’s team will produce a family of 5 statues bespoke for the 2017 BRIT Awards. Kutay explains the family of five idea, “the concept represents diversity, the family is connected by a wave of transition, they are different yet connected.” "
http://www.brits.co.uk/news/2017-statue ... zaha-hadid

_92776765_zahapa3.jpg
_92776765_zahapa3.jpg (18.44 KiB) Viewed 1322 times


Though personally, the concept would be more fully-realised if each award was a different version of the statue. Iow, why stop at 5?

I still smell bullshit though. “The concept represents diversity, the family is connected by a wave of transition, they are different yet connected.” Hm. Right. Not sure that means much in this particular case.
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Re: The Design thread

#137  Postby DougC » Dec 02, 2016 1:06 am

Scot Dutchy wrote: I am down to one shop for clothes now and one 20 years ago would not have been seen dead in.


Image Man at C-and-Grey?

Scot Dutchy wrote:I never buy anything that is not made in Europe. It is still possible.


I imagine the sweatshops of Eastern Europe are a different class than the Bangladesh ones.
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Re: The Design thread

#138  Postby Scot Dutchy » Dec 02, 2016 11:30 am

DougC wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: I am down to one shop for clothes now and one 20 years ago would not have been seen dead in.


Image Man at C-and-Grey?

Scot Dutchy wrote:I never buy anything that is not made in Europe. It is still possible.


I imagine the sweatshops of Eastern Europe are a different class than the Bangladesh ones.


Dont buy east European made clothes either. Mostly German, Italian and Dutch but I suppose they have sweat shops as well.
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Re: The Design thread

#139  Postby DougC » Dec 23, 2016 9:07 pm

B.B.C. - Why houses in Bermuda have white stepped roofs

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Re: The Design thread

#140  Postby Macdoc » Dec 29, 2016 11:00 am

Watch to the end

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