Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#21  Postby newolder » Mar 14, 2022 12:50 pm

Fenrir wrote:
hackenslash wrote:
...
There are some challenges in getting the energy down to the surface, and I estimate at least some significant dispersal, but it's fairly straightforward to use a laser as a carrier wave to transfer the energy down to collector stations on the surface for distribution.
...


Jewish space lasers?


I recall such proposals from the 1980s and one of the stumbling blocks was around the "beaming the energy down to the surface" section. Maser technology was calculated as the most energy efficient but a misdirected beam (due to deliberate or accidental satellite orbit disturbance) could easily result in "boil in the bag" outcomes for some denizens beneath. :doh: However, seeing as how I'll be long gone before such schemes are operational, have at it... :popcorn:
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#22  Postby hackenslash » Mar 14, 2022 12:52 pm

Given that it was Einstein's re-derivation of Planck's radiation law and the influence of Ladenburg, it's hard to describe it otherwise.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#23  Postby hackenslash » Mar 14, 2022 12:55 pm

newolder wrote:I recall such proposals from the 1980s and one of the stumbling blocks was around the "beaming the energy down to the surface" section. Maser technology was calculated as the most energy efficient but a misdirected beam (due to deliberate or accidental satellite orbit disturbance) could easily result in "boil in the bag" outcomes for some denizens beneath. :doh: However, seeing as how I'll be long gone before such schemes are operational, have at it... :popcorn:


I recall. We've ascertained via no robust work whatsoever that we can control this by use of gyroscopic alignment using whatever technology is eventually decided on for LISA only, in our scheme, this alignment will also be used as a failsafe, so that any misalignment with the collector stations if it drifts even a micron off axis will cut off the transmission.

The technology to achieve this doesn't yet exist, but we're confident with no justification that we can pull it off if we believe hard enough.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#24  Postby newolder » Mar 14, 2022 12:58 pm

Then I'll happily chip in the 73 drachma in my currency reserves. :thumbup:
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#25  Postby tuco » Mar 14, 2022 1:02 pm

newolder wrote:
tuco wrote:I am curious what the actual number would be, say in gigawatts. That's how one gets investors interested .. it can produce as much electricity as xyz nuclear powerplants. 10^? really big right? :)

Lord Kelvin's 1862 musings on "The Secular Cooling of the Earth" give a starting point to which we must add radioactive decay and the modern science of materials to conclude that the Earth's internal heat source flows to the surface at a rate close to 50 Terawatts: wiki link.

Probably not the number you seek but it's a guide to further guesses...


Neat, thanks.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#26  Postby hackenslash » Mar 14, 2022 1:11 pm

newolder wrote:Then I'll happily chip in the 73 drachma in my currency reserves. :thumbup:


And that's the thing, isn't it? There aren't many hereabouts who wouldn't see glaring hurdles to be overcome with no good indication that it's even possible in theory to overcome them. That's why there are these idiot pilot projects for hyperloops popping up from Branson, Musk et al, when the technological challenges of maintaining a vacuum on such a scale are functionally insurmountable, let alone the colossal energy requirements of doing it on even a small scale. People are still pumping capital into these white elephant frauds. It's almost trivial to get these morons to part with enormous amounts of cash for silly fantasies, but not to solve real-world solvable problems that they could genuinely solve at probably a fraction of the expenditure.

And they wonder why we get pissed.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#27  Postby Macdoc » Mar 15, 2022 7:28 am

Just a reminder of MITs heritage and penchant for disruption

https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/0 ... ilestones/
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#28  Postby Fenrir » Mar 15, 2022 9:07 am

Religion: it only fails when you test it.-Thunderf00t.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#29  Postby Fenrir » Mar 15, 2022 9:18 am

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/05/19/ ... real-bore/

Lol

MIT and SOLAR FREAKING HYPERLOOPS!!1!!
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#30  Postby Fenrir » Mar 15, 2022 9:21 am

https://gizmodo.com/mit-built-a-therano ... 1837968240

Lol

MIT, Epstein and good old Theranos style fraud.

"Disruptive"
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#31  Postby hackenslash » Mar 15, 2022 10:16 am

Macdoc wrote:Just a reminder of MITs heritage and penchant for disruption

https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/0 ... ilestones/


Just a reminder of why dumbfuck isn't a good look.

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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#32  Postby Cito di Pense » Mar 15, 2022 12:09 pm

Macdoc wrote:
From a human scale of energy needs over time, unlimited if the boring technology works.


I can't count the number of times I've seen "God exists if blah blah blah is true". This is like one of those, except that we know how energy works and we don't know how god works, except in mysterious ways. The boring technology works in mysterious ways, depending on the application.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#33  Postby hackenslash » Mar 15, 2022 12:14 pm

I've requested transportation of the thread. This isn't an engineering challenge, it's a magic challenge.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#34  Postby Macdoc » Mar 15, 2022 4:41 pm

Well pass on your eloquent concerns on to MIT...I'm sure they'll be all ears to have the error of their ways pointed out.
A history of unicorns which MIT has in spades, is hardly any species of herring.

Meanwhile geo-thermal electricity is not news, getting to it has proved a challenge.

This may be a method to tackle that as a technology transfer from the endless horizon fusion effort
...not your money in this case ... as opposed to fusion which indirectly is. :coffee:
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#35  Postby hackenslash » Mar 15, 2022 5:36 pm

I know you aren't nearly stupid enough to think that just because something comes from people at MIT doesn't mean it isn't bullshit.

Once again, examples have been given upthread about why this is a colossally fucking stupid position to take. Just to reiterate, 'solar freakin' roadways', also a product of MIT and asinine in every single respect, and that's even before we get into why it can't possibly work.

Getting to it hasn't proved a challenge, because it hasn't proved anything until it's happened or been deemed impossible. Getting to it has been entirely beyond us, despite several multi-billion dollar attempts that have ended in ignominious failure without even putting a significant dent in the problem.

You're being very silly. The only thing this is a method for is getting dumb rubes to part with their cash.

Fusion is demonstrably possible. That's a big difference.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#37  Postby Ken Fabian » Mar 17, 2022 2:18 am

I think we will see working fusion before we see geothermal power of that sort. But we will have much better batteries and other improved energy storage as well as cheaper solar/wind/wave power, better, longer grid interconnectors and probably modular nuclear reactors before we see working fusion. Whilst the successes of the most achievable technologies won't prevent ongoing work on less achievable ones it may be the problems they are intended to solve will get solved without them.

All we have to do is to build these nanobots that will harvest minerals from NEOs and will self-construct this solar array.


ALL? Seriously? Using non-existent "Nanobots" is equivalent to relying on magic. There is nothing inevitable about such technology.

Any factory that makes solar panels will draw on multiple specialist suppliers as well as connect to pre-existing essential services, many of which will not be viable or exist at all except that there were and are other uses and users. Between imagining nanobots that can do it all, from the very limited minerals available in asteroids - and I seriously doubt it even can be done that way - and designing and producing them is a vast amount of R&D that is unlikely to happen if it relies on such speculative projects to provide sufficient motivation. Some Earth based reasons for developing such technologies may allow other uses to develop as spin offs but asteroid mining, whilst conceptually simple, will be very complex and difficult and it is unlikely to be attempted with nanobots, even if they existed.

Space solar has been an idea around for a long time without any significant progress. I've always wondered why, if it is feasible to beam power down from space, can't we leave the solar farms on Earth and beam power up in one place and back down somewhere else? Well - poor energy conversion efficiencies is probably one reason why it is not given consideration. Like many of the "just do X" solutions, it turns out being a lot more difficult and potentially expensive than the optimists say.

In my experience the proponents of such clean energy solutions are usually grand space optimists for whom the massive expansion of space capabilities is the principle motivation - very often with the intention of leaving Earth and it's problems behind rather than fix them; it will not go down well for our very serious Earthly concerns to be misused to advance entirely different objectives.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#38  Postby tuco » Mar 17, 2022 2:28 am

Space lift, guys, space lift :)
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#39  Postby hackenslash » Mar 17, 2022 9:34 am

Ken Fabian wrote:ALL? Seriously? Using non-existent "Nanobots" is equivalent to relying on magic. There is nothing inevitable about such technology.


Can't tell if you're joking or if you haven't read the room. I agree with this.
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Re: Unlimited energy ...no fusion required

#40  Postby Cito di Pense » Dec 15, 2022 7:04 am

Ken Fabian wrote:I think we will see working fusion before we see geothermal power of that sort.


Hmmmm.
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