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#1  Postby ElDiablo » Jun 04, 2012 3:40 pm


!
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This thread split from here.

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In my formative years, I was not a big fan of Picasso either until I saw this piece in a museum in Los Angeles.
I felt like kneeling in reverence when I saw it - highly out of character for me.
The lesson I learned was you can only get so much from a book or slides.

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#2  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 04, 2012 3:43 pm

ElDiablo wrote:In my formative years, I was not a big fan of Picasso either until I saw this piece in a museum in Los Angeles.
I felt like kneeling in reverence when I saw it - highly out of character for me.
The lesson I learned was you can only get so much from a book or slides.


Anecdotes. Can't prove 'em. Can't compile 'em into a bible and deliver the Word. Can't even ignore them.

I know what it's like to look at the original work of my favourite artist (Paul Klee) in a gallery. It's like touching the hem of his fucking garment. Reverence is something you manufacture for yourself. There's a limitless supply, for a few decades.

If someone rains on your parade, let a smile be your umbrella. With that in mind, consider that some of your friends are going to vapourise if you don't take some of their shit seriously. See also, Serious Cat.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#3  Postby Mike_L » Jun 04, 2012 7:45 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:You know me, Jack, and I will always salute technical skill, such as that exemplified by biological illustrators whose work found its way into early biology textbooks and natural histories.

One of the most accomplished medical illustrators of all time, Henry Vandyke Carter, never got a fraction of the recognition he deserved, thanks to the pettiness of Henry Gray... :nono:

Henry Vandyke Carter
He began work for Henry Gray and others in 1852, and in 1856 he drew the illustrations for the now famously illustrated Gray's Anatomy. The publishers of the first edition wanted to ascribe joint authorship of the book to Carter as his illustrations were just about as noteworthy as the text, but Gray objected.
(Wikipedia)

Edit to add...
Perhaps Gray didn't want the work to be known as "that anatomy book by Henry and Henry". :dunno:
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#4  Postby Regina » Jun 04, 2012 8:07 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
You know me, Jack, and I will always salute technical skill, such as that exemplified by biological illustrators whose work found its way into early biology textbooks and natural histories.


Maria Sibylla Merian:
Truth, Beauty, Perfection :)

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#5  Postby Mike_L » Jun 04, 2012 8:23 pm

:this: is splendid! :clap:
All the more impressive when one recognises that watercolour is not an easy medium!!!
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#6  Postby Regina » Jun 04, 2012 8:36 pm

Mike_L wrote::this: is splendid! :clap:
All the more impressive when one recognises that watercolour is not an easy medium!!!

Now, these pics don't do her justice, you have to see really good prints.

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#7  Postby Mike_L » Jun 04, 2012 8:53 pm

:clap: Beautiful colour, magnificent detail.

Here's another fine work turned up by Google Image Search...
The transparency/translucency of watercolours allows for application of continuous shadows and highlights upon a multi-coloured surface... e.g. the shadow which falls in "uninterrupted" fashion upon the patterned leaf. Merian's work displays mastery of a difficult medium!

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#8  Postby Regina » Jun 04, 2012 9:01 pm

She's the best-known scientific illustrator in Germany.
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#9  Postby orpheus » Jun 04, 2012 10:05 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
ElDiablo wrote:In my formative years, I was not a big fan of Picasso either until I saw this piece in a museum in Los Angeles. 
I felt like kneeling in reverence when I saw it - highly out of character for me. 
The lesson I learned was you can only get so much from a book or slides.


Anecdotes. Can't prove 'em. Can't compile 'em into a bible and deliver the Word. Can't even ignore them.

I know what it's like to look at the original work of my favourite artist (Paul Klee) in a gallery. It's like touching the hem of his fucking garment. Reverence is something you manufacture for yourself. There's a limitless supply, for a few decades.

If someone rains on your parade, let a smile be your umbrella. With that in mind, consider that some of your friends are going to vapourise if you don't take some of their shit seriously. See also, Serious Cat.


Food for thought, most definitely. 

Incidentally, Klee is your favorite? I should have guessed from your "country" (Tod und Feuer). I have never seen that particular work of his in the flesh, so to speak, and I really want to. It's one of the most disturbing paintings I've ever seen - by anybody. Even in reproductions I find it almost overwhelming.

One thing I haven't mentioned: for me art isn't just for pleasure. It can also help me compose music. This can take many forms: emotional inspiration, analogies I can make, ideas about structure or procedures, etc. Often visual art or poetry helps me in this regard more than music by other composers. I don't know why. I think the gap between music and other art forms is important. That distance somehow leaves space to play around with ideas.

Klee is one of the best in this regard. What an imagination! And it's not only his finished works; brief as it is, the Pedagogical Sketchbook never fails to spark ideas. And a few years ago I bought the two volume set of his Notebooks. It cost me about as much as a transatlantic flight, but it was worth every penny.
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#10  Postby Cito di Pense » Jun 04, 2012 10:20 pm

orpheus wrote:
Incidentally, Klee is your favorite? I should have guessed from your "country" (Tod und Feuer). I have never seen that particular work of his in the flesh, so to speak, and I really want to. It's one of the most disturbing paintings I've ever seen - by anybody. Even in reproductions I find it almost overwhelming.

One thing I haven't mentioned: for me art isn't just for pleasure. It can also help me compose music. This can take many forms: emotional inspiration, analogies I can make, ideas about structure or procedures, etc. Often visual art or poetry helps me in this regard more than music by other composers. I don't know why. I think the gap between music and other art forms is important. That distance somehow leaves space to play around with ideas.

Klee is one of the best in this regard. What an imagination! And it's not only his finished works; brief as it is, the Pedagogical Sketchbook never fails to spark ideas. And a few years ago I bought the two volume set of his Notebooks. It cost me about as much as a transatlantic flight, but it was worth every penny.


I was lucky enough to be able to visit this exhibition for an afternoon:

http://www.smb.museum/smb/kalender/deta ... &typeId=10

and Tod und Feuer was included in the collection. It was my avatar for a long time here, and it was NonErgodic's avatar at RDF. I was introduced to Klee's work by a friend when I lived near Bern for several months, and spent many hours at the old Kunstmuseum, and have even visited the posh new Klee Zentrum away from the city center. Klee is very playful.

Image

I've also been told that it helps to try to 'listen' for the 'music' in Kandinsky's painting. I don't quite have the hang of it yet.
Хлопнут без некролога. -- Серге́й Па́влович Королёв

Translation by Elbert Hubbard: Do not take life too seriously. You're not going to get out of it alive.
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#11  Postby Regina » Jun 04, 2012 10:30 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
I've also been told that it helps to try to 'listen' for the 'music' in Kandinsky's painting. I don't quite have the hang of it yet.

Truth be told, I'm always a bit skeptical about such things. But alas, I'm a Barbarian in more ways than one. :smile:
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#12  Postby Kazaman » Jun 04, 2012 10:48 pm

Yeah, I don't see any music in that, really. Canadian artist Peggy Smith, on the other hand, creates florid works whose textures seep with harmony, and incidentally often have musicians as subjects.

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#13  Postby orpheus » Jun 04, 2012 11:24 pm

Cito di Pense wrote:
orpheus wrote:
Incidentally, Klee is your favorite? I should have guessed from your "country" (Tod und Feuer). I have never seen that particular work of his in the flesh, so to speak, and I really want to. It's one of the most disturbing paintings I've ever seen - by anybody. Even in reproductions I find it almost overwhelming.

One thing I haven't mentioned: for me art isn't just for pleasure. It can also help me compose music. This can take many forms: emotional inspiration, analogies I can make, ideas about structure or procedures, etc. Often visual art or poetry helps me in this regard more than music by other composers. I don't know why. I think the gap between music and other art forms is important. That distance somehow leaves space to play around with ideas.

Klee is one of the best in this regard. What an imagination! And it's not only his finished works; brief as it is, the Pedagogical Sketchbook never fails to spark ideas. And a few years ago I bought the two volume set of his Notebooks. It cost me about as much as a transatlantic flight, but it was worth every penny.


I was lucky enough to be able to visit this exhibition for an afternoon:

http://www.smb.museum/smb/kalender/deta ... &typeId=10

and Tod und Feuer was included in the collection. It was my avatar for a long time here, and it was NonErgodic's avatar at RDF. I was introduced to Klee's work by a friend when I lived near Bern for several months, and spent many hours at the old Kunstmuseum, and have even visited the posh new Klee Zentrum away from the city center. Klee is very playful.

Image

I've also been told that it helps to try to 'listen' for the 'music' in Kandinsky's painting. I don't quite have the hang of it yet.


I envy you! I wish I'd been able to see that exhibition.

The idea of "music" in art is interesting. Actually, I can see it more in Klee's own work than in Kandinsky's. Klee was an extremely good violinist, and almost decided on a career as a musician. (Supposedly he chose art because he found it more difficult and the challenge attracted him!) But also he was interested in finding analogies between the two media; he used musical ideas to structure a lot of his paintings. 

Interesting about K & K: when they taught at the Bauhaus they had adjacent gardens. They both took gardening extremely seriously; they would never speak to one another while gardening. 

The playfulness you mention is something I admire enormously in Klee. Also the range he achieved in a rather short life. He really let his imagination run, and was willing to follow it.

Also there's that almost Mozartean ability he had. As a boy he taught himself to draw - with both hands simultaneously

Some early works:

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#14  Postby THWOTH » Jun 05, 2012 6:55 am

Such a sense of flow and movement to those doodles and smudges.

:cheers:
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#15  Postby Regina » Jun 05, 2012 7:24 am

THWOTH wrote:Such a sense of flow and movement to those doodles and smudges.

:cheers:

Especially in the doodles. :grin:
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#16  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 05, 2012 9:07 am

It is probably worth bringing up that art appreciation is probably learnable, also. As a classically trained violinist, I appreciate things about some music that The_Metatrix simply doesn't get in the same way. I wasn't born with that skill, but was able to learn it. Oh, not all of it, to be sure. There are a great deal of modern compositions that I think are utter crap, and other people think are fucking wonderful (Stravinsky comes to mind).

Anyway, as I said, I don't know if it's art, but I know what I like.

Fortunately, I don't have to like it all.
I AM Skepdickus!

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#17  Postby Mike_L » Jun 05, 2012 9:13 am

orpheus wrote:
[Klee]
Some early works:

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A master of stippling! (Stippling: the use of hand-drawn dots to create halftones)

The amazing stipple art of Noli Novak...

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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#18  Postby Regina » Jun 05, 2012 9:16 am

The_Metatron wrote:It is probably worth bringing up that art appreciation is probably learnable, also. As a classically trained violinist, I appreciate things about some music that The_Metatrix simply doesn't get in the same way. I wasn't born with that skill, but was able to learn it. Oh, not all of it, to be sure. There are a great deal of modern compositions that I think are utter crap, and other people think are fucking wonderful (Stravinsky comes to mind).

Anyway, as I said, I don't know if it's art, but I know what I like.

Fortunately, I don't have to like it all.

No one has to.
But as I've said before: I find it helpful to distinguish between my personal taste and all the rest.
I'm not a big fan of Expressionism myself, for a number of reasons. But I do concede that it has produced some pretty good art.
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#19  Postby The_Metatron » Jun 05, 2012 9:20 am

It goes without saying there are my personal tastes though, and everyone else being nuts.
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Re: Mark Rothko painting sold for record $86.9M at New York auct

#20  Postby Regina » Jun 05, 2012 9:22 am

The_Metatron wrote:It goes without saying there are my personal tastes though, and everyone else being nuts.

Of course. :mrgreen:
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