Art = Getting reactions from people.

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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#101  Postby Skinny Puppy » Jul 04, 2014 6:39 pm

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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#102  Postby Templeton » Jul 04, 2014 7:17 pm

The act of making art is self expression

Once an artistic piece is viewed by someone else it becomes the subjective interpretation of the observer.

Targeting artistic expression toward a specific audience and selling it is smart business.

Many of the great artist's of the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries works were contracted either by the church or wealthy patrons.

Many didn't get paid much for those contracts. Subsequently the value of art is subjective.

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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#103  Postby Nicko » Jul 04, 2014 11:01 pm

Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression


It can be.
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#104  Postby orpheus » Jul 05, 2014 12:13 am

Nicko wrote:
Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression


It can be.


Yes. It can also be exploration - something done out of curiosity. In fact, I think this motivation is far more prevalent among artist than most people think. One of my mentors said it well: from the outside, we think that when a composer completes a piece it must feel to him or her like an endpoint. But to many composers it doesn't feel like that at all; it feels like you've explored part of an unfamiliar city; the process of writing the piece has brought you to this particular point - this "street corner" - from which you can see other streets, buildings, sights, (not to mention things in your memory that you noticed while walking and want to explore) - all these things that you could never have predicted in advance. And at that point, what you're really thinking about is going on to explore those new things that are now before you.

Closely related to this is an accident of history. We've inherited a lot of attitudes from the 19th century. Another composer:

Harrison Birtwistle wrote:
I don't think creative people think about intuition. You take it for granted you're expressing yourself. It's a nineteenth-century, romantic idea that creative artists are people who are preoccupied with self-expression. What really preoccupies artists is simply how the hell you do it.

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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#105  Postby epepke » Jul 05, 2014 8:48 am

Thanks for a page to follow.
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#106  Postby THWOTH » Jul 05, 2014 10:28 am

orpheus wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression


It can be.


Yes. It can also be exploration - something done out of curiosity. In fact, I think this motivation is far more prevalent among artist than most people think. ...

Indeed. "I wonder what would happen if...." is at the root of much human endeavour, along with, "So if that is the case, what does that mean for this..."

Nice Bertie quote btw. :thumbup:
"No-one is exempt from speaking nonsense – the only misfortune is to do it solemnly."
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#107  Postby kennyc » Jul 05, 2014 11:39 am

orpheus wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression


It can be.


Yes. It can also be exploration - something done out of curiosity. In fact, I think this motivation is far more prevalent among artist than most people think. One of my mentors said it well: from the outside, we think that when a composer completes a piece it must feel to him or her like an endpoint. But to many composers it doesn't feel like that at all; it feels like you've explored part of an unfamiliar city; the process of writing the piece has brought you to this particular point - this "street corner" - from which you can see other streets, buildings, sights, (not to mention things in your memory that you noticed while walking and want to explore) - all these things that you could never have predicted in advance. And at that point, what you're really thinking about is going on to explore those new things that are now before you.

Closely related to this is an accident of history. We've inherited a lot of attitudes from the 19th century. Another composer:

Harrison Birtwistle wrote:
I don't think creative people think about intuition. You take it for granted you're expressing yourself. It's a nineteenth-century, romantic idea that creative artists are people who are preoccupied with self-expression. What really preoccupies artists is simply how the hell you do it.

(from an interview with Michael Hall)



Excellent post! And this is true of all arts, not just visual art. In fact the doing it to explore and learn is perhaps even more true of the literary arts.
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#108  Postby orpheus » Jul 05, 2014 9:46 pm

THWOTH wrote:
orpheus wrote:
Nicko wrote:
Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression


It can be.


Yes. It can also be exploration - something done out of curiosity. In fact, I think this motivation is far more prevalent among artist than most people think. ...

Indeed. "I wonder what would happen if...." is at the root of much human endeavour, along with, "So if that is the case, what does that mean for this..."


Yes, perhaps I should have used the word "curiosity" too. It certainly feels like that for me.

Nice Bertie quote btw. :thumbup:


I'm a huge fan of Harry's music, and the way he goes about composing has had a really big influence on me. I can't claim to have been a regular student of his, though I studied some of his music with him before conducting it; and I did take a few very, very helpful composition lessons with him. In those few hours of looking through my music he was shockingly perceptive. And yes, he's eminently quotable. One of my favorites - in trying to answer a question he thought deeply for a moment and said, "yes, well, it's definitely a sort of something."

Says it all, really. :)
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#109  Postby epepke » Jul 06, 2014 1:17 am

How about this.

Art is what you make of it, and making something out of it is the purpose of art.

I think that covers everything. Is it too vague?
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#110  Postby epepke » Jul 06, 2014 1:23 am

Oh, by the way, Duchamp's definition of art is, tautologically, a form of art.
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#111  Postby tolman » Jul 08, 2014 1:53 am

Templeton wrote:The act of making art is self expression

Once an artistic piece is viewed by someone else it becomes the subjective interpretation of the observer.

Targeting artistic expression toward a specific audience and selling it is smart business.

Many of the great artist's of the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries works were contracted either by the church or wealthy patrons.

Many didn't get paid much for those contracts. Subsequently the value of art is subjective.

They probably got paid more than someone who shoveled shit for a living.

But then they were craftspeople, even if some may also have been some sort of celebrity - had their product been pretentious bollocks, they would likely have been looking for alternative employment.
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#112  Postby kennyc » Jul 15, 2014 1:29 am

“It’s a very new, not to mention vulgar, idea that the spectator’s experience should be identical to, or even have anything to do with, the artist’s”
― Samuel R. Delany, Dhalgren
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Re: Art = Getting reactions from people.

#113  Postby orpheus » Jul 15, 2014 2:45 am

kennyc wrote:“It’s a very new, not to mention vulgar, idea that the spectator’s experience should be identical to, or even have anything to do with, the artist’s”
― Samuel R. Delany, Dhalgren


Yes. Thank you, Kenny, for that quote. I'm going to remember it; it's very well said.

It's something people don't often think about, but it's true: if you look at everyone's experience of a given work, the artist's own experience is really the outlier. I remember being very unhappy the day after a concert on which I conducted a new piece of mine. A composer friend of mine reminded me that at that point, I was the least qualified person to evaluate how the listeners experienced the work, because I was myopically too close to it — and I was the only person with anything remotely like that perspective.
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