Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#341  Postby tuco » Mar 22, 2016 1:25 pm

conspire (v.)

late 14c., from Old French conspirer (14c.), from Latin conspirare "to agree, unite, plot," literally "to breathe together," from com- "together" (see com-) + spirare "to breathe" (see spirit (n.)). Or perhaps the notion is "to blow together" musical instruments, i.e., "To sound in unison." Related: Conspired; conspiring.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=conspire

There surely are dis/advantages, perceived or real, in belonging into and/or identifying with this or that group, of art thus culture. That is the whole point of it, individuality and identity.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#342  Postby felltoearth » Mar 22, 2016 1:30 pm

So, conspiracy is sucking and blowing at the same time?
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#343  Postby tuco » Mar 22, 2016 1:32 pm

How to answer this?

So, you tell me if English is your native tongue.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#344  Postby Mike_L » Mar 22, 2016 1:34 pm

felltoearth wrote:So, conspiracy is sucking and blowing at the same time?

...with a paint atomizer (in this particular context).

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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#345  Postby proudfootz » Mar 22, 2016 1:40 pm

Image

Bush's happy feet.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#346  Postby proudfootz » Mar 22, 2016 1:41 pm

felltoearth wrote:So, conspiracy is sucking and blowing at the same time?


I think I saw that movie... :oops:
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#347  Postby Nicko » Mar 22, 2016 1:53 pm

proudfootz wrote:Some people prefer the conspiracy theory that 'modern art' is a scam.


The modern art world is a scam. Much of modern - and particularly postmodern - art seems directed at exposing this scam.

So far with little success. Every time an artist comes up with some work and says, "Sell this, you fascist junta!" to the art world, the art world finds some way to sell it. It has been observed that if every artist in the world started restricting their output to the production of identical cardboard boxes, the "art world" would continue without interruption.

When Andy Goldsworthy can cover the same river rock with moistened leaves four times - once for each season - and sell that*, you know there's no floor to this thing called "art".





* And I like Andy Goldsworthy's stuff and think the rock looked cool. Just for the record.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#348  Postby proudfootz » Mar 22, 2016 2:16 pm

Everywhere there is money, there is fraud.

Look at the world of 'real art' and see how a painting by a 'master' is valued versus a fake that looks every bit as good. One is worth millions and the other is trash - if it's found out. The problem is that people can't tell 'real art' from 'fake art' - the distinction isn't objective.

When people have to resort to carbon dating the materials to determine if a painting of a smiling lady is art or not it's pretty clear it's not the skill in creating the piece, the effort that went into it, or the effect is has on the viewers that's important.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#349  Postby Zadocfish2 » Mar 23, 2016 3:00 am

When people have to resort to carbon dating the materials to determine if a painting of a smiling lady is art or not it's pretty clear it's not the skill in creating the piece, the effort that went into it, or the effect is has on the viewers that's important.


To be fair, forging something is not creative in any way, and it's skillful in a way that has nothing to do with making art. It's a purely mechanical skill. It's basically a lie made in an attempt to cash in on something old. The original piece is old and valuable because it's... old and valuable.

As for fraud... Eh, I don't think it's a matter of conspiracy, it's just that effortless, meaningless things are in vogue because the idea of quality has gotten so muddled by abstractionism. I still respect any piece that tries, and more importantly succeeds, to make people feel specific things. There are abstract emotional pieces that are CRAFTED, rather than shat out. They're just in a definite minority.

Image

This, for example. It has parts that bear resemblance to things that conjure emotions and images; it portrays something. It looks like a harsh sound readout, it's spotched with a very dirty kind of blood red and black splotches, and it also looks like a steady, top-down rust. It looks frayed around the bottom edge, too. It evokes a feeling of chaotic decay, or general dirty unpleasantness. It really looks like the artist chose that aesthetic deliberately, he didn't just flick paint at a canvas and hoped it would look like what he was feeling.

Image

I don't like this as much because I can't really tell what it's supposed to mean or convey, but despite being made of flat squares, it seems bumpy because of the placement of the darker and brighter squares. I don't really get it, but I get that it looks vaguely organic in a way I can't quite put my finger on. It, again, clearly took effort.

Art is subjective, but I feel you can still put thought into both its creation and review.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#350  Postby The_Piper » Mar 23, 2016 3:16 am

The art of forging a painting. Any old fool can try, few can succeed. :lol:
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#351  Postby Nicko » Mar 23, 2016 4:09 am

Zadocfish2 wrote:To be fair, forging something is not creative in any way, and it's skillful in a way that has nothing to do with making art. It's a purely mechanical skill. It's basically a lie made in an attempt to cash in on something old. The original piece is old and valuable because it's... old and valuable.


What about the forger who paints an original work in the style of a famous artist? That would seem to be intrinsically creative.

After all, it would be rather difficult to sell someone a forgery of Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, given that any art collector would be aware that painting hangs in New York's Museum of Modern Art and is not for sale.

Selling someone a work alleged to be a previously unknown Picasso would seem a much more viable option, and it's my understanding that this is the norm.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#352  Postby Mike_L » Mar 23, 2016 7:15 am

Zadocfish2 wrote:Image

This is the worst goddam Magic Eye image I've ever seen tried to see! I've been squinting at it for more than half an hour and I still can't find the hidden 3D image! :pissed:


:shifty:
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#353  Postby proudfootz » Mar 23, 2016 8:09 am

Mike_L wrote:
Zadocfish2 wrote:Image

This is the worst goddam Magic Eye image I've ever seen tried to see! I've been squinting at it for more than half an hour and I still can't find the hidden 3D image! :pissed:


:shifty:


I think it's a Scotsman with a bushy red beard. ;)
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#354  Postby Mike_L » Mar 23, 2016 10:11 am

:lol: :thumbup:
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#355  Postby The_Piper » Mar 23, 2016 3:26 pm

Nah, it's just tv snow from the future. :tongue:
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#356  Postby solipsist » Apr 10, 2016 2:14 am

Zadocfish2 wrote:Image

This one is better

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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#357  Postby ElDiablo » Apr 10, 2016 3:27 am

Nicko wrote:
Zadocfish2 wrote:To be fair, forging something is not creative in any way, and it's skillful in a way that has nothing to do with making art. It's a purely mechanical skill. It's basically a lie made in an attempt to cash in on something old. The original piece is old and valuable because it's... old and valuable.


What about the forger who paints an original work in the style of a famous artist? That would seem to be intrinsically creative.

After all, it would be rather difficult to sell someone a forgery of Les Demoiselles d'Avignon, given that any art collector would be aware that painting hangs in New York's Museum of Modern Art and is not for sale.

Selling someone a work alleged to be a previously unknown Picasso would seem a much more viable option, and it's my understanding that this is the norm.


I think it takes creativity and talent to be a forger. If you don't have artistic skills it will show.

Here's a very interesting article about a Netflix video of ‘Beltracchi: The Art of Forgery’ Tells How a Swindler Fooled the World

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/19/movies/review-beltracchi-the-art-of-forgery-tells-how-a-swindler-fooled-the-world.html?_r=0

I watched it and was fascinated by the level of deception. He played off the greed of the galleries looking for big sales. In it he states it was easier to sell a $10 million dollar painting than a $10 thousand dollar one.

A revealing spoiler about the depth of the art market greed...
[Reveal] Spoiler:
At the end of the video, he's encouraged by an art dealer to continue doing his copies but with his own signature because they will have a lot more value than his original work. Because they have his signature they are not forgeries.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#358  Postby ElDiablo » Apr 10, 2016 3:28 am

Mike_L wrote:
Zadocfish2 wrote:Image

This is the worst goddam Magic Eye image I've ever seen tried to see! I've been squinting at it for more than half an hour and I still can't find the hidden 3D image! :pissed:


:shifty:


I can't see those either.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#359  Postby proudfootz » Apr 10, 2016 9:42 am

New Rembrandt painting.

Image

Painted by a computer.
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Re: Art Students can't tell a monkey's painting from art

#360  Postby Mike_L » Apr 10, 2016 9:51 am

They can do marble sculpture too...!

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