Battlefield 3

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Battlefield 3

#1  Postby SPMaximus » Mar 31, 2011 1:14 pm

must have its own epic thread

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekDutunw1mk[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBu_tH8muq0[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsHIHxYXeLs[/youtube]

:dance:

edit: they are releasing 12 minutes of gameplay footage april 17th :popcorn:
Last edited by SPMaximus on Mar 31, 2011 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
:popcorn:
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Re: Battlefield 3

#2  Postby XiledSpawn » Mar 31, 2011 1:16 pm

Do want! :awesome: I love the Battlefield games, and the return of prone will be welcomed with open arms.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#3  Postby Jbags » Apr 01, 2011 5:28 am

Ah man, thanks for posting these, given me another game to be excited about!
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Re: Battlefield 3

#4  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Apr 01, 2011 6:49 am

Looks and sounds awesome! COD killer?
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Re: Battlefield 3

#5  Postby SPMaximus » Apr 01, 2011 12:38 pm

doubt it

its gonna sell a shitload but i dont think it will get up to call of duty levels, and the console version of BF3 is only gonna have 24 player servers, reduced map size etc.
i guess they wanna keep as much of the destruction and stuff as possible for consoles

BF3 is also dropping Windows XP and DX9 support, something Crysis 2 should have done (imo), that game could have been so much more :coffee:

i think COD will be the COD killer if they just keep releasing the same game every year, Modern Warfare 3 wont have a new engine cause that would be "counter productive", as in "we dont want to spend extra money improving the game when people just keep buying the same shit from us over and over again" :shifty:

theres sort of a stalemate in game development due to windows xp, directx 9, 5 year old hardware on consoles and developers wanting to make the game available to as many as they possibly can
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Re: Battlefield 3

#6  Postby jim » Apr 01, 2011 1:16 pm

Battlefield has ALWAYS been better than CoD.
And just why would anyone buy an FPS on a console when they have access to a PC? that's just bloody mental.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#7  Postby SPMaximus » Apr 01, 2011 1:53 pm

Battlefield series is way better than CoD, but CoD has just gotten such a huge console fanbase that i dont see any way for Battlefield 3 to compete with that, even if it turns out to be the best FPS ever

Im just happy PC gamers are getting an FPS made for the PC and not a console port :coffee:
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Re: Battlefield 3

#8  Postby Jbags » Apr 01, 2011 2:00 pm

I really don't understand why people continue to buy console FPS games. The experience just sucks compared to playing on PC! In the same way that playing a racing game with keyboard & mouse is really unsatisfactory, but more so. Game developers have to implement all manner of mechanics to assist with aiming because its such a bloody nightmare with a pair of analogue sticks, they literally have to rewrite the game to make it playable. Just a nuisance I say!
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Re: Battlefield 3

#9  Postby akigr8 » Apr 01, 2011 3:47 pm

Looking forward to play Battlefield 3 on my console using Sony Move. ;)
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Re: Battlefield 3

#10  Postby mattthomas » Apr 01, 2011 3:55 pm

Yes, major want...
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Re: Battlefield 3

#11  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Apr 01, 2011 7:45 pm

SPMaximus wrote:doubt it

its gonna sell a shitload but i dont think it will get up to call of duty levels, and the console version of BF3 is only gonna have 24 player servers, reduced map size etc.
i guess they wanna keep as much of the destruction and stuff as possible for consoles


I didn't really mean sales and popularity. I just mean the quality of the game. It already looks and sounds way better than Black Ops. Don't really care about the PC version. I like consoles better.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#12  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Apr 01, 2011 7:51 pm

Jbags wrote:I really don't understand why people continue to buy console FPS games. The experience just sucks compared to playing on PC! In the same way that playing a racing game with keyboard & mouse is really unsatisfactory, but more so. Game developers have to implement all manner of mechanics to assist with aiming because its such a bloody nightmare with a pair of analogue sticks, they literally have to rewrite the game to make it playable. Just a nuisance I say!


I don't find aiming hard at all with the analog sticks. Once you get the technique down, it's easy.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#13  Postby SPMaximus » Apr 01, 2011 10:23 pm

thats because console FPS's have auto aim :P
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Re: Battlefield 3

#14  Postby mraltair » Apr 01, 2011 11:14 pm

I need some tissues.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#15  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Apr 01, 2011 11:40 pm

SPMaximus wrote:thats because console FPS's have auto aim :P


Not in multiplayer.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#16  Postby Jbags » Apr 02, 2011 5:48 am

Macroinvertebrate wrote:
Jbags wrote:I really don't understand why people continue to buy console FPS games. The experience just sucks compared to playing on PC! In the same way that playing a racing game with keyboard & mouse is really unsatisfactory, but more so. Game developers have to implement all manner of mechanics to assist with aiming because its such a bloody nightmare with a pair of analogue sticks, they literally have to rewrite the game to make it playable. Just a nuisance I say!


I don't find aiming hard at all with the analog sticks. Once you get the technique down, it's easy.


Sure, you can practice at it and get used to it, god knows how many hours of halo multiplayer I played on console. The point is though even at its best, a console controller is a poor substitute for mouse & keyboard.

Consoles have a whole load of mechanics created to make it less difficult to play with a controller that they have to completely rewrite/remove when doing a PC port, which is often why FPS games ported from console to PC play horribly.

Here is an interesting explanation of the changes they had to make when doing just that, by one of the devs of Monday Night Combat (source: Penny Arcade) (spoilered for brevity)

[Reveal] Spoiler: FPS console mechanics & porting to PC
Moving a shooter from the console to the PC has had some interesting challenges. Monday Night Combat is still the same game from a gameplay mechanics point of view. However, since the input mechanism has changed I have found some challenges in getting the game to a balanced state.

Now, ask any gamer who has played a shooter on both the PC and a console and they will tell you that mouse and keyboard is infinitely better than a console controller. PC players long for a game that they can play on a PC versus people playing on a console just for the pwnage of console newbie meat. We accept this as a universal truth. But why? Why is a mouse and keyboard so much better than a controller? Here’s my theory and analysis.

It all comes down to how each input mechanism affects your ability to turn. On a console, the angle in which a player can turn is a function of both time and displacement of the thumb stick. No matter how far players want to turn, they have to pay a time cost. Even at the highest controller sensitivity, there is a time cost to be paid. On a PC the angle of turn is a direct mapping of how far you move the mouse. The time cost is variable and the better players get that time cost to approach zero.
Now, on consoles we use an array of aim helping mechanisms all in an attempt to help with this time cost. View acceleration allows that time cost to not be linear from distance the thumb stick is moved. It’s an attempt to guess that if players jam their thumb stick to one side and hold it they want to spin quickly, but if they slam it to one side and release they want to make a fast minor adjustment. So at the beginning of the time cost the rate of turn is slower and it speeds up exponentially, to a cap, as time goes by.

View friction slows down the player’s turn speed when an enemy passes in front of their cursor. This makes it so they can shortcut that time cost by allowing players to turn up the sensitivity, thus lowering the time cost, but make it so that the turn rate slows down when you have an enemy in their sights. Hopefully, this makes it easier to get a target in the crosshairs.

View adhesion, which will cause the player’s cursor to adhere to enemies passing in front of the player, is an attempt at taking the time cost away. This mechanic tries to match the player’s turn rate to a target moving in front of the player. Thus trying to remove the time cost for moving targets that should be easily hit.

Aim attraction is the last console helping mechanism. This is a system that takes a shot you make, sees if it’s going to be close to a target, and adjust that shot ever so slightly so that it hits. This doesn’t directly affect the time cost but does give some perceived precision to shooting on a console.

Now, all these systems sound like cheating but they all revolve around the same concept; make the time to aim as small as possible. None of these systems are needed on the PC because that time can get to be nearly zero by sheer player skill.
With all that said, how does this affect Monday Night Combat from console to PC? Well, I take all the skills and abilities that are very aim dependent and look at them. The sniper is the most obvious example: a one shot, one kill class that is very powerful if their time to aim can be nearly zero. The first thing I did was drop the clip size of the sniper rifle by 60% (from 10 to 4). Why? Because now I’m forcing the sniper to be more accurate. On console I allowed for a little ‘slop’ and gave some extra ammo. But on PC the shots have to count or the player will find themselves vulnerable again while reloading. This may even get lower, since there is no kickback on our sniper rifle there’s even been talk of making it a bolt-action rifle.

The sniper was the first fix. The Tank charge was not as obvious at first. The skill is a one second forward run that damages, knocks back, and stuns anything it hits. On the console it works fine. Good players can use it to kill one other player. But now that there is a near-zero cost of aiming I found that good tanks can zig-zag to hit players or even easily charge around corners. So I dropped the damage of the level 3 Tank charge, which also does the stun, because I found that when players can aim that fast it becomes nearly impossible to avoid. With the damage so high it assured multiple kills. With the high damage the Tank Charge best use case on the console would be one kill but the best use case on the PC would be two or three kills.

Another subtle PC induced nerf was the Firebase. When a support player throws one out other players have three seconds to destroy it before it deployed and started attacking them. On the PC Firebases were dying much more often simply because players can focus on them so much faster. So to counter act this effect I reduced the amount of bonus damage they take while deploying. This forced players to focus on the Firebase for longer. This still make Firebases destroyable before they fully deployed but made it so it wasn’t so trivial.

Another interesting thing popped up recently. We were in the process of tweaking how the Gunner and Tank jump jets work. Why? Because with a mouse and keyboard, you can now jump and aim at the same time. With the console controller there's an additional time penalty to be paid to move your thumb off the jump button and back onto the right thumb stick in order to aim while jumping. This is no longer an issue on the keyboard so we looked at ways to slightly change the mechanic so the best move for the two heavy chassis was to always be in the air.

I’m sure as the Monday Night Combat beta goes on there will be more and more things I find that are affected by the precision of the mouse and keyboard controls. As I find them, we will fix them up and get them out to the fans as soon as possible.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#17  Postby Macroinvertebrate » Apr 02, 2011 6:02 am

Jbags wrote:
Macroinvertebrate wrote:
Jbags wrote:I really don't understand why people continue to buy console FPS games. The experience just sucks compared to playing on PC! In the same way that playing a racing game with keyboard & mouse is really unsatisfactory, but more so. Game developers have to implement all manner of mechanics to assist with aiming because its such a bloody nightmare with a pair of analogue sticks, they literally have to rewrite the game to make it playable. Just a nuisance I say!


I don't find aiming hard at all with the analog sticks. Once you get the technique down, it's easy.


Sure, you can practice at it and get used to it, god knows how many hours of halo multiplayer I played on console. The point is though even at its best, a console controller is a poor substitute for mouse & keyboard.


Well, that's a subjective call, really. I've played with mouse and keyboard and I just prefer the feel of a controller. Feels more natural to me. I like the rumble when you get hit or when you shoot a guy. I like the trigger to fire like a real gun. The analog sticks are really easy to use. I use an FPS Freeks 'Kontrol Freek' attachment on the right analog stick that helps with control and precision at higher sensitivities. If you like the mouse and keyboard better, all the power to you.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#18  Postby Jbags » Apr 02, 2011 6:23 am

Oh, don't get me wrong, there are aspects of controllers I do really like, like you say, both the rumble feature and having a "trigger" are great aspects of console controllers (and they are great features across game genres, they both work great in racing games for example). I do really like console controls, particularly the xbox360 control, although I prefer the PS3 as a console I prefer the xbox controller, I think it's a really nice piece of kit (I use one to game on my PC).

The problem is, the very nature of a console controller will never give you the precision of a keyboard & mouse setup (part of this is described very well in the article I included in my last post), both in terms of accuracy and movement delays. I dare say if you only play FPS games on console then it won't bother you - but given I play(ed) FPS games on PC and console, I was always very aware of the contrast between the two systems of control.

This is also why you'll never have mixed console & PC FPS multiplayer servers, it'd just be too one sided.
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Re: Battlefield 3

#19  Postby SPMaximus » Apr 02, 2011 12:27 pm

Jbags wrote:This is also why you'll never have mixed console & PC FPS multiplayer servers, it'd just be too one sided.

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/07/rumour ... line-play/
"The founder of Voodoo PC, Rahul Sood, says that Microsoft once floated the idea of implementing cross-platform play between the PC and Xbox 360 for a range of titles. Thing is, testing didn’t go so well.

Problems quickly arose in testing, however, when Microsoft found that even the best console gamers simply couldn’t compete with the accuracy a mouse and keyboard afforded a PC player. “The console players got destroyed every time”, Sood says. “So much so that it would be embarrassing to the XBOX team in general had Microsoft launched this initiative.”"


:popcorn:

edit: Shadowrun had cross platform multiplayer, but apparently the game was a bit shit
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Re: Battlefield 3

#20  Postby jim » Apr 02, 2011 2:13 pm

Quake 3 arena also had one patch that would allow access to servers that were meant for Dreamcast players.
Ahhh but that was a fun patch, hilarious games.
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