Derren Brown - The Experiments

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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#21  Postby twistor59 » Oct 30, 2011 12:12 pm

You're talking about the one where the audience all wore masks and voted to do nasty stuff to the "victim" ? I just couldn't believe that the audience would be gullible enough to think that they could REALLY go into someone's room and smash his telly up, bundle him into a van etc. The main conclusion was that the audience were as thick as pigshit.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#22  Postby campermon » Oct 30, 2011 2:16 pm

twistor59 wrote:You're talking about the one where the audience all wore masks and voted to do nasty stuff to the "victim" ? I just couldn't believe that the audience would be gullible enough to think that they could REALLY go into someone's room and smash his telly up, bundle him into a van etc. The main conclusion was that the audience were as thick as pigshit.


Quite representative of the nation then!

:cheers:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#23  Postby Scarlett » Oct 30, 2011 3:32 pm

campermon wrote:
twistor59 wrote:You're talking about the one where the audience all wore masks and voted to do nasty stuff to the "victim" ? I just couldn't believe that the audience would be gullible enough to think that they could REALLY go into someone's room and smash his telly up, bundle him into a van etc. The main conclusion was that the audience were as thick as pigshit.


Quite representative of the nation then!

:cheers:


You speak for yourself Mr C, I'm quite clever I am :dopey:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#24  Postby campermon » Oct 30, 2011 4:56 pm

Paula wrote:
campermon wrote:
twistor59 wrote:You're talking about the one where the audience all wore masks and voted to do nasty stuff to the "victim" ? I just couldn't believe that the audience would be gullible enough to think that they could REALLY go into someone's room and smash his telly up, bundle him into a van etc. The main conclusion was that the audience were as thick as pigshit.


Quite representative of the nation then!

:cheers:


You speak for yourself Mr C, I'm quite clever I am :dopey:


:whistle:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#25  Postby Scot Dutchy » Oct 30, 2011 4:59 pm

Shrunk wrote:
In The Assassin, the first show in the series, Derren Brown investigates hypnosis and asks if someone could be hypnotised into a killing a celebrity. Is this really possible? And who will be the celeb?


:lol: Love that last question.

Seriously, though, it looks interesting. Hopefully it''ll ber available online for those who don't have access to BBC?


It is Channel 4.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#26  Postby quisquose » Nov 04, 2011 3:43 pm

I thought the last episode, the cruel gameshow one, was very good. I hope it opened a few minds to the cruel reality of mob behaviour.

At the end I had the niggling feeling that I had seen the exact same stunt pulled on another TV programme, I just can't remember what.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#27  Postby Blip » Nov 04, 2011 3:50 pm

[Slight derail] My friend was at university with Derren B; she still has a caricature of herself that he drew for her [/derail]
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#28  Postby CookieJon » Nov 05, 2011 8:56 am

Experiment 3:

OMG Derren Brown does Cluedo - that was a guilty pleasure to watch. Wasn't Jody just adorable!

Obviously wasn't meant to confess in the first interview despite their faux concern, otherwise the big finale would have been ruined. Ooh he's a showman.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#29  Postby twistor59 » Nov 05, 2011 9:02 am

Blip wrote:[Slight derail] My friend was at university with Derren B; she still has a caricature of herself that he drew for her [/derail]


Yeah, well, I stood next to DAVID BELLAMY whilst checking out at a hotel once :tongue:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#30  Postby Blip » Nov 05, 2011 9:38 am

twistor59 wrote:
Blip wrote:[Slight derail] My friend was at university with Derren B; she still has a caricature of herself that he drew for her [/derail]


Yeah, well, I stood next to DAVID BELLAMY whilst checking out at a hotel once :tongue:


David Bellamy was one of my lecturers at university! He was a very good lecturer too: I can still remember a lot of his material.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#31  Postby Jumbo » Nov 05, 2011 9:49 am

CookieJon wrote:Experiment 3:

OMG Derren Brown does Cluedo - that was a guilty pleasure to watch. Wasn't Jody just adorable!

Obviously wasn't meant to confess in the first interview despite their faux concern, otherwise the big finale would have been ruined. Ooh he's a showman.

I noticed the cluedo references too. Dr Black being the victim and there was even a Reverend Green present! :lol:
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#32  Postby mrjonno » Nov 07, 2011 12:15 pm

If you treat his programmes as entertainment as opposed to a serious psychological then its really good.

As for the evil crowd I don't get it, I would quite happily been a complete bastard without a mask or crowd.The victim was going to get compensated and had been silly to sign a contract he probably didnt read
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#33  Postby Jumbo » Nov 07, 2011 12:30 pm

As for the evil crowd I don't get it, I would quite happily been a complete bastard without a mask or crowd.The victim was going to get compensated and had been silly to sign a contract he probably didnt read

The set up was that the 'victim' had no idea he was being filmed, at least thats what the evil crowd were meant to think. He would have had no contract in their minds.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#34  Postby mrjonno » Nov 07, 2011 6:54 pm

Jumbo wrote:
As for the evil crowd I don't get it, I would quite happily been a complete bastard without a mask or crowd.The victim was going to get compensated and had been silly to sign a contract he probably didnt read

The set up was that the 'victim' had no idea he was being filmed, at least thats what the evil crowd were meant to think. He would have had no contract in their minds.


I thought he had talked to Derren Brown regarding something else but Derren had turned him down (or so he thought) but I presume there was some sort of contract was signed
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#35  Postby Jumbo » Nov 07, 2011 7:44 pm

The guy in the game-show experiment was an actor in on it from the start. The audience was told that he had come in for an interview and turned down for a program. There was no mention of any contract having been signed. The audience were led to believe he thought he would have no further involvement with Derren Brown and was simply on a night out while being filmed by a hidden camera he had no knowledge of.

The audience were led to believe that their victim would be totally unsuspecting.
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Derren Brown - The Experiments

#36  Postby Precambrian Rabbi » Nov 07, 2011 8:07 pm

B

ETA: £@:#ing iPhone!
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#37  Postby GrahamH » Nov 07, 2011 10:51 pm

I'm not sure what to make of DB. He is also an illusionist, and this is entertainment. If he says he has planted a suggestion, then opens the envelope to show he predicted your choice would match the suggestion he planted, he may have just switched the envelope, in standard illusionist style.

If The Assassin is what it purports to be it is very unsettling.

DB does seem a lot of careful selection to identify particularly suggestible people. That might give us some comfort that that "he couldn't do that to me!" Who knows?

The Heist, from an earlier series, was similar - programming people to opportunistically pull a gun and take money from a security guard.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments - The Secret of Luck

#38  Postby johnlambe » Nov 12, 2011 4:37 pm

It was entertaining, and I think it was useful in explaining what causes people to believe in luck.
But the end seemed to encourage superstition. Derren referred to a "lucky dice", and might have rigged the dice roll.

The way the rumour spread was interesting - with two people saying that it had been around for years. It seems like either they or someone they heard it from didn't distinguish their assumptions from what they actually heard.

I suppose people are more open to a suggestion when asked a question that presupposes it than if they were told directly. (Declaring a statue lucky wouldn't work).
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The Experiments - The Secret of Luck: Was it rigged?

#39  Postby johnlambe » Nov 12, 2011 5:34 pm

I wonder whether the dice roll was rigged.

Derren would presumably want him to win so that the show would end on a positive note. I think he would have given him back the money if he lost anyway (as with that roulette one in the The Events).

Brown seems to have done things to make it difficult for him to rig it:

1. People from the town had an input in deciding the form of the event.
But probably no more than an input - it's hard to tell from the limited footage shown - and Derren would be skilled in leading them to choose something he wanted (and anything that could be rigged would do).
(Of course, asking a group of probably superstitious people how to scientifically test a superstition (the purported purpose of this event) would be daft, and the test they came up with was completely unscientific for that purpose. For one thing, there is no control.).

2. The chute was assembled by local people.
But it might have little or nothing to do with how it was rigged, and they might have built it to his specifications.
Also, Derren would have had an opportunity to test it and make small modifications.

3. The dice was provided by a local toy store owner.
But maybe Derren chose the type of dice to be used (from his store) beforehand, so that he could have an identical-looking one ready to switch with it.
The toy store owner handled the dice to Derren who gave it immediately to the contestant (first transferring it from his right hand to his left), with the camera on his hands. I think it's just possible that he might have had a rigged dice concealed in his left hand and switched it when the dice was momentarily hidden by his fingers.
It might be simpler than that: Maybe Derren gave the toy store owner the dice beforehand to hold until the show, and misled us with the irrelevant detail that he was a toy store owner.

4. The number to bet on was chosen after he gave the dice to the contestant.
But the choice of 4 might have been predictable (see below).

5. The dice was rolled three times (so simply weighting once side of it wouldn't work).

6. He gave the dice to the contestant afterwards.
But his experiment doesn't depend on the contestant winning (his experiment, as I understand it, was to test whether someone could be lead to believe he/she would win due to luck), so maybe he wasn't concerned about whether he examined the dice or not. Or maybe - being a psychologist - he was confident that the contestant wouldn't examine the dice closely enough.

7. The film shows close-ups of the critical points where one might detect that something is rigged: The transfer of the dice between Derren's hands (one might have to be magician to detect a switch) and the movement of the dice when it lands (it looks to me like there might be a force other than gravity acting on it but I couldn't really tell).


However, he made it easier to rig by letting the audience chose the number to bet on (rather than the contestant). He gave the contestant the option to change it, but he might have been confident that he wouldn't - Wayne (the contestant) came across as a non-confident person.

People don't choose numbers randomly, and the larger the group, the more predictable the result will be. The probability that a group of a certain size will choose 4 could be determined statistically (by asking a sample of people from a similar cultural background to the audience) and is probably quite high. (Russian Roulette involved predicting a number in the range 1 to 6).

He also asked the contestant which roll of the dice would count - giving a choice of 1 to 4. I've heard before that the most popular choice of number in that range is 3 (which is what the contestant chose).

I guessed both that the audience would choose 4 (though I thought 5 almost as likely) and the contestant would choose the third roll.
(I guessed 4 based on trying to extrapolate from suggested reasons people choose 3 from 1 to 4: People don't like extremes (so eliminate 1 and 6), and like a number slightly higher than others (so eliminate 2 and 3)).
When he started asking the audience, this was starting to seem like some of his other tricks, and I thought that the chance of winning was a lot higher than 1 in 6.


Mechanics of rigging the dice

I think it could be done with a dice which has a peice of ferrous metal in it, of the same density as the material the rest of the dice is made from (or with some lighter material next to the metal to compensate for the extra weight of the metal), on the side opposite the 4. Then an electromagnet (remotely controlled by an assistant) in the wooden base where the dice lands could bias the dice when desired.

This way, the assembly of the chute is not critical - it just has to ensure that the dice is spinning when it comes out the end (to minimise the necessary bias) and that it lands in a predictable place. Bouncing of the dice probably helps too. It would have been more difficult to rig if the dice was being rolled across a surface (without the chute).

Derren would still have to have predicted the 4, which I think he could have done, taking a calculated risk (most of his shows seem to carry a risk of something not working).


So I think it could be done (and the above is probably not be the only way), and I think he would do it, because, from a theatrical point of view, the show needs a climax.
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Re: Derren Brown - The Experiments

#40  Postby GrahamH » Nov 12, 2011 6:48 pm

When DB is asking for a show of hands he is more animated in the awy he says "number four" than he is for the other numbers.
The panelling in the hall has four squares in the four corners of each panel - rather like a dice. Hmmm.
On two and three votes DB says "few more". Could that be "few more"?
There is a possibility of a magnetic die, which could be biassed by an electromagnet under the board, or even under the stage.

There are plenty of possibilities for a dice swap or plant, even months earlier.

The video of the dice in the bowl could have been pre-recorded, and wife Lisa, emotionally invested in a win, might have been influenced to report a four whatever came up, while the video showed a four on screen.

The chute made it all but impossible for anyone to follow the die and check it against the video.
Why do you think that?
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