Tabletop games and RPGs.

Discuss books, film, tv, music, games and all other arts here.

Moderators: Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#41  Postby Nicko » Mar 16, 2014 1:13 pm

DarthHelmet86 wrote:To Hit Armour Class 0 seems like such an odd method of working out a hit or miss doesn't it? I much prefer the Armour Class method of 3/3.5 you just have to roll a die and get that number or above flat or with your to hit bonus.


It was retarded. But it was based on the 1E idea of AC being better the lower it was.

1E had become ridiculously unwieldy. It was basically the original D&D with a whole host of seemingly-arbitrary house rules cobbled onto it. It definitely needed a reboot, but 2E was seriously flawed.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:There was always the idea that 3/3.5 was the publisher (I don't think it is Wizards of the Coast any more is it? I can't remember they had some legal trouble I seem to remember) trying to suck money out of players by making them buy a whole bunch of new Core Books. But I think I buy their argument that they needed to stop fiddling around with the rules in supplements and Dragon/Dungeon magazines and instead to re-codify the rules in Core Books for new and old players to be on a similar field without needing all those supplements and magazines.


Definitely. The move to the d20 system was awesome. The inclusion of feats and an actual skills system meant even the humble fighter had stuff they could do aside from, "I hit it with my sword." and gave the system a flexibility that it had never had before.

But there were problems. The cobbling of a points-based skill system onto a level-based character system was one of them. Despite the illusion of free choice, characters who learned cross-class skills would never be able to attain the proficiency of characters who had those skills as part of their class package. Very quickly, players began to realise that the "advisory" to restrict their characters to a certain number of class skills which were maxed out at 4 at creation and maintained at level+3 for the rest of the character's career was pretty much a requirement. Sure, it seemed like it worked when your character was at the lower levels - "I can base my Fighter on Westley from The Princess Bride!" - but, as the campaign progressed, the penalties of nonconformism became apparent. The "Westley" starts getting clobbered when he tries to tumble past opponents. Like, every fucking time, because his skill level is around half what it should be to pull that shit off on a level-appropriate opponent.

The interaction between Attack Bonus and ECL was a problem that faced many multiclass characters. The system promised characters that were good (or at least okay) at both, and delivered characters that were shit at both. Again, a flaw masked at lower levels. You'd find this out only when you'd invested half a campaign into a character who turned out to be a disappointment*.

3E is restrictive - any class/level based system is always going to be - but it's primary flaw for me is that it gives the illusion that it's not.

DarthHelmet86 wrote:With stuff like the Players Handbook 2 I don't know what is in them to benefit buying them. I do know the Monster Manual 2/3 and the like add a lot of new content they are filled with new monsters. I would assume the Players Handbook and Dungeon Master extra books are similar, grabbing all the new content that was originally spread over many supplements and putting it into one core book. So the Players Handbook would have lots of equipment, classes, spells, advanced class from other supplements. I could be wrong though.


If you are still talking 3/3.5, then there's a couple of new basic classes, a number of restrictive "packages" and a whole bunch of stuff that really should be just a matter of roleplaying instead of rules.

The additional Player's Handbooks in 4E have actual useful stuff in them. Mostly new classes/paths/powers. PH2 introduces the Primal power source (Barbarians and Druids and stuff) along with other options using extant power sources; PH3 introduces the Psionic power source (Monks and ... other things) along with other variations on the extant sources.

Just sayin'.

:whistle:







* Incidentally, not a personal experience. My two major characters in 3E were a half-orc Barbarian and a half-elf Monk. I watched as each steadily outclassed the characters of my more eclectic peers.
"Democracy is asset insurance for the rich. Stop skimping on the payments."

-- Mark Blyth
User avatar
Nicko
 
Name: Nick Williams
Posts: 8641
Age: 44
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#42  Postby Ironclad » Mar 16, 2014 2:14 pm

1E had become ridiculously unwieldy. It was basically the original D&D with a whole host of seemingly-arbitrary house rules cobbled onto it.

Heresy! :mob:

OK next up, Role Master. :D
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23925
Age: 52
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#43  Postby Nicko » Mar 16, 2014 9:05 pm

Ironclad wrote:
1E had become ridiculously unwieldy. It was basically the original D&D with a whole host of seemingly-arbitrary house rules cobbled onto it.

Heresy! :mob:

OK next up, Role Master. :D


Never played it. That's Steve Jackson's thing, right?
"Democracy is asset insurance for the rich. Stop skimping on the payments."

-- Mark Blyth
User avatar
Nicko
 
Name: Nick Williams
Posts: 8641
Age: 44
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#44  Postby Ironclad » Mar 17, 2014 12:07 am

God no, It's Iron Crown Enterprises (ICE) work. They made a simpler version of it in a Lord of the Rings themed RPG, but it was extremely good all the same, and a great introduction to the advanced system of RM (as it was known). While I gave away all my other games and armies I held onto this one because of the quality, it simply reeks of it. Very advanced gaming, huge tabletures, easily the best scenarios made for any RPG out there, but still fun. And written humorously too, as if the designers knew it would be heavy going at times so they dropped in plenty of lolz. Perhaps like a cross between D&D and Rune Quest, let's say.
For Van Youngman - see you amongst the stardust, old buddy

"If there was no such thing as science, you'd be right " - Sean Lock

"God ....an inventive destroyer" - Broks
User avatar
Ironclad
RS Donator
 
Name: Nudge-Nudge
Posts: 23925
Age: 52
Male

Country: Wink-Wink
Indonesia (id)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#45  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Mar 17, 2014 3:44 pm

I have fininshed writing up my first area for my Modern D20 game, it has taken me a bit to work out where this first area should take the players. I knew I wanted it to be a gang hideout, but I wanted the right amount of space and the right kind of tone to the place. I thought of making the hideout in just a run down slum house, but they were just in a house so they felt a bit to similar. I thing looked at some other maps online and in my books and thought maybe a abandoned fast food restaurant would be good. But thinking some more it felt like it would be too large, it would just be one big combat I wanted the feeling of hunting for danger in smaller rooms, the fear of what might be behind that next door. I then thought maybe an apartment would be good, but that was just too small a space, gangers don't live in penthouses.

However that is when it came to me, I could have it in an apartment building one that has been abandoned by the normal residents and has been taken over by the gangs. Set across one or two floors the gang has expanded the apartments into each other, knocking down walls here and there. This increases the play area, meaning the players wont be done too quickly and at the same time allows me to have the cramped tone I was looking for. Time to start some map drawing and some writing.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#46  Postby Nicko » Mar 17, 2014 9:24 pm

DarthHelmet86 wrote:I have fininshed writing up my first area for my Modern D20 game, it has taken me a bit to work out where this first area should take the players. I knew I wanted it to be a gang hideout, but I wanted the right amount of space and the right kind of tone to the place. I thought of making the hideout in just a run down slum house, but they were just in a house so they felt a bit to similar. I thing looked at some other maps online and in my books and thought maybe a abandoned fast food restaurant would be good. But thinking some more it felt like it would be too large, it would just be one big combat I wanted the feeling of hunting for danger in smaller rooms, the fear of what might be behind that next door. I then thought maybe an apartment would be good, but that was just too small a space, gangers don't live in penthouses.

However that is when it came to me, I could have it in an apartment building one that has been abandoned by the normal residents and has been taken over by the gangs. Set across one or two floors the gang has expanded the apartments into each other, knocking down walls here and there. This increases the play area, meaning the players wont be done too quickly and at the same time allows me to have the cramped tone I was looking for. Time to start some map drawing and some writing.


Sounds good.

One idea might be that connecting doors have been created by smashing through the backs of built-in closets. That way, the players see one apartment at first, then realise they have to expand their thinking. Once they're used to that idea, introduce them to vertical connections between apartments.

Can you describe the campaign in general?
"Democracy is asset insurance for the rich. Stop skimping on the payments."

-- Mark Blyth
User avatar
Nicko
 
Name: Nick Williams
Posts: 8641
Age: 44
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#47  Postby Meme » Mar 18, 2014 2:55 am

Ah DnD and Warhammer. Its like being a pimply 15 year-old again. The memories. The horrible, horrible memories.

I used to love Warhammer as a 12-17 year old, collected Orks & Goblins and Chaos. Spent all the money I earned from mowing lawns/babysitting/tutoring/seducing housewives on figurines, paint and building scenery. My painting skills were roughly equavilent to attempting to paint the Mona Lisa with a paint roller, but at least my goblins were a vaugely green Waaaugh.

Read the Ciaphas Cain and Gaunt's Ghosts novels in the last few years. Really enjoyed them for what they were - mostly mindless fun. Paricularly the Cain novels - its nice to see an author poking fun at just how rediculously 'grimdark' the WH40K setting in, albeit in a formulaic way.

I attended some D&D meetups about five or six years ago, but left after about 10-12 gaming sessions, mostly because I seemed to be regarded by the group as not committed enough. Or perhaps I wasn't socially awkward enough :tongue:. Honestly, men in their late 20s through to mid 50s should know to dress better and shower more often, as should some of the women. Showing up in a suit and tie after work was almost terminally embarassing, for all involved.
Meme
 
Name: Simon
Posts: 61

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#48  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Mar 18, 2014 4:41 am

Nicko wrote:Sounds good.

One idea might be that connecting doors have been created by smashing through the backs of built-in closets. That way, the players see one apartment at first, then realise they have to expand their thinking. Once they're used to that idea, introduce them to vertical connections between apartments.

Can you describe the campaign in general?


This is similar to what I ended up doing, but in the layout I drew up I couldn't do to many of the closet breakthroughs. But it is a good idea to have done it that way, I might think about it some more and perhaps redraw the map to better suit that idea.

As for the campaign it is set in the Modern world, but it doesn't feature any of the magic or supernatural that it could. It is a city overrun with criminals and gangs, from the organised Mafia to the local slum running hoods. The police are overwhelmed and the criminals are dropping through loopholes in the law and getting right back on the streets. To combat this a government department has decided to abuse a loophole that allows civilians to commit crimes to get evidence and legally defend themselves while doing so. The police can then use this evidence in court and it wont be throw out even though if the police and done those actions it would be tainted. The players don't look like cops so they will have a better chance of getting in to places without being spotted and the criminals destroying the evidence.

That isn't to say it will be pure normal in the setting, I already have plans for genetically modified spiders that are as big as a large dog. But that wont be till later in the game, start of very normal and then slowly add stuff like that to spice it up a bit.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#49  Postby DarthHelmet86 » May 04, 2014 5:19 am

I got my hands on the Star Wars Edge of the Empire RPG core book. It is using an odd dice system, a little complicated but it doesn't seem too bad. The game itself seems pretty damn good, set sometime after Star Wars 4 but before Star Wars 6 since only one Death Star has been destroyed and the Empire is still in control of the core. The game is set on the edges of the Empires control, where the Hutts and other criminals also have control. Still have a lot of reading to do but so far it is looking like a good game system for the Star Wars setting.

No Jedis mind, but that is a good thing really. They would be too OP at low levels for one thing and in the timeline there are so few Jedis it would be bending the lore way to much to have players running around every where with lightsabers and force jumps. There is mention of them coming in later books and there is mention of force powers and players being able to use some in very small amounts so I am for it.
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#50  Postby Nicko » May 04, 2014 7:07 am

I've been having a look at the Mutants and Masterminds (3rd Ed.) system. It's designed to be a superhero RPG - I think the system is also used for DC's RPG - but it has enough flexibility to be used for almost anything.

Rather than a class-based level progression, it uses a "power level" mechanic to cap opposing powers. In a PL 12 campaign (think JLA or Avengers second-stringer), for example, there's nothing to stop a player from giving their character a strength rating of 16. It would, however, cap their chance to hit ratings at 8, as the total of opposing attributes can only be twice the PL.

Rather than trying to list every possible power ever to appear in a comic book, the system provides effects that can be combined, described and modified to create powers. Their sample "Speedster" character (ie. Flash, Quicksilver), for example, has a area-effect blast to simulate the character's ability to punch everyone in the room in the face in the blink of an eye.

The main problem I have with the system is that there is such variety and so many options that designing a character with pen and paper is bizarrely complex, although gameplay seems pretty straightforward. I did, however, find a thing called Hero Lab from Lone Wolf Development that manages character creation and progression. It also works for d20, CoC, Pathfinder and World of Darkness. They also have something called RealmWorks for Gamemasters to manage campaigns with.
"Democracy is asset insurance for the rich. Stop skimping on the payments."

-- Mark Blyth
User avatar
Nicko
 
Name: Nick Williams
Posts: 8641
Age: 44
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#51  Postby Meme » Jul 25, 2014 7:16 am

Little bump.

Anyone tried the new 5th edition rules of D&D?

I'm thinking about getting back into the RPG swing of things and was wondering what experiences, good or bad, the forum has had?
Meme
 
Name: Simon
Posts: 61

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#52  Postby DarthHelmet86 » Jul 25, 2014 7:54 am

Haven't seen them yet, I could hunt around for the beta ones but I think I might wait till it is out and give it a browse at my local store. I too wouldn't mind hearing what people have thought of them.

Edit: That RealmWorks looks really nice, I wonder how good the map maker is in it though. I have been looking for a good map maker I could play around to use for online games. So far I have been rather let down by the free ones either being too overly complex or lacking any real way of making the maps look lived in. The fog of war part looks cool as well. Still 50 USD is a bit of change...have you tried it out Nicko?
I. This is Not a Game
II. Here and Now, You are Alive
User avatar
DarthHelmet86
RS Donator
 
Posts: 10344
Age: 35
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Re: Tabletop games and RPGs.

#53  Postby Nicko » Jul 25, 2014 11:55 am

DarthHelmet86 wrote:Haven't seen them yet, I could hunt around for the beta ones but I think I might wait till it is out and give it a browse at my local store. I too wouldn't mind hearing what people have thought of them.

Edit: That RealmWorks looks really nice, I wonder how good the map maker is in it though. I have been looking for a good map maker I could play around to use for online games. So far I have been rather let down by the free ones either being too overly complex or lacking any real way of making the maps look lived in. The fog of war part looks cool as well. Still 50 USD is a bit of change...have you tried it out Nicko?


Just the free trial of Hero Lab.

Seems to work OK. Also supports WoD.
"Democracy is asset insurance for the rich. Stop skimping on the payments."

-- Mark Blyth
User avatar
Nicko
 
Name: Nick Williams
Posts: 8641
Age: 44
Male

Country: Australia
Australia (au)
Print view this post

Previous

Return to The Arts & Entertainment

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest