Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

Discuss books, film, tv, music, games and all other arts here.

Moderators: Blip, The_Metatron

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#21  Postby jamest » May 01, 2013 11:56 pm

Shrunk wrote:This article from the Tate Gallery's website speaks directly to your question, jamest:

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... rk-prophet

That made for a very interesting read, thank you. I'm not entirely sure what to make of it, but it does seem to lend much weight to my initial judgement of those later works.
Il messaggero non e importante.
Ora non e importante.
Il resultato futuro e importante.
Quindi, persisto.
jamest
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 18527
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#22  Postby Wiðercora » May 02, 2013 1:57 pm

Simon Schama, art historian, did a programme on Turner a while ago, perhaps there's something relevant in it:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB_CdhU3ZeI[/youtube]

The Van Gogh one is worth watching too; Andy Serkis plays our titular tormented artist very well.

Image

My five-year-old could do that! Baa!
If the unemployed learned to be better managers they would be visibly better off, and I fancy it would not be long before the dole was docked correspondingly.
-- George Orwell


Infrequently updated photo blog.
User avatar
Wiðercora
 
Name: Call me 'Betty'.
Posts: 7079
Age: 31
Male

Country: The Grim North.
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#23  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 02, 2013 2:45 pm

I would call his work impressionistic, but my guess is the title of "father" of something is reserved usually not for the first to implement it but the first to influence the rest of the community and start the movement.

Turner may have been an impressionist, but might not have been influential enough to be recognized as the "Father of Impressionism".
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12683
Age: 53
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#24  Postby jamest » May 02, 2013 2:48 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:I would call his work impressionistic, but my guess is the title of "father" of something is reserved usually not for the first to implement it but the first to influence the rest of the community and start the movement.

Turner may have been an impressionist, but might not have been influential enough to be recognized as the "Father of Impressionism".

Was there somebody before him who painted in such a style?
Il messaggero non e importante.
Ora non e importante.
Il resultato futuro e importante.
Quindi, persisto.
jamest
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 18527
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#25  Postby orpheus » May 02, 2013 2:49 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:I would call his work impressionistic, but my guess is the title of "father" of something is reserved usually not for the first to implement it but the first to influence the rest of the community and start the movement.


You also have to fill out the proper form in triplicate and have it notarized.

:)
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#26  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 02, 2013 2:56 pm

Wiðercora wrote:
Image

My five-year-old could do that! Baa!


I'm sure you are taking the piss but there is a lot more consideration to shape, color and composition than a five year old could manage. I've studied art in college and this piece is sublime.
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12683
Age: 53
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#27  Postby jamest » May 02, 2013 3:01 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:
Image

My five-year-old could do that! Baa!


I'm sure you are taking the piss but there is a lot more consideration to shape, color and composition than a five year old could manage. I've studied art in college and this piece is sublime.

Perhaps it is sublime, but what is it? :scratch:
Il messaggero non e importante.
Ora non e importante.
Il resultato futuro e importante.
Quindi, persisto.
jamest
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 18527
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#28  Postby Wiðercora » May 02, 2013 3:20 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
Wiðercora wrote:
Image

My five-year-old could do that! Baa!


I'm sure you are taking the piss but there is a lot more consideration to shape, color and composition than a five year old could manage. I've studied art in college and this piece is sublime.


I am taking the piss indeed. To those who say 'I could do that', I say 'Well, what's stopping you?'

I think it's a beach, is it? The white bits look like waves, and the brown bits look like they could be the ruins of a rowing boat, or a pier or some such construction.
If the unemployed learned to be better managers they would be visibly better off, and I fancy it would not be long before the dole was docked correspondingly.
-- George Orwell


Infrequently updated photo blog.
User avatar
Wiðercora
 
Name: Call me 'Betty'.
Posts: 7079
Age: 31
Male

Country: The Grim North.
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#29  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 02, 2013 4:43 pm

That's exactly what I saw too. Which tells you something about the skill of the artiest :D
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12683
Age: 53
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#30  Postby epepke » May 02, 2013 4:58 pm

Wiðercora wrote:I think it's a beach, is it? The white bits look like waves, and the brown bits look like they could be the ruins of a rowing boat, or a pier or some such construction.


Looks to me like a beach, too, but the dark marks suggest to me an intact rowboat and someone or maybe two people sitting on the sand behind it waiting for the surf to go down a bit, albeit dimly seen.
User avatar
epepke
 
Posts: 4080

Country: US
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#31  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 02, 2013 5:00 pm

jamest wrote:
Perhaps it is sublime, but what is it? :scratch:


What it is could be subjective, but isn't always an important question. More importantly is, what do you see in it; how does it make you feel; what path does it cause your eyes to take across it; does it intrigue you?

Someone who says, "A child can do that", doesn't understand art. Whether a child did it, it happened naturally or a trained artist painted it, is inconsequential.
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12683
Age: 53
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#32  Postby orpheus » May 02, 2013 5:09 pm

Remember too, that some of the most interesting artists (e.g. Turner, Vermeer, Bacon, Klee, Uccello, Piero Della Francesca, Giacometti, Cezanne, Rothko, Johns) don't seem to be using paint and painting to express something about subject matter, but rather the other way round.
Last edited by orpheus on May 02, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#33  Postby Regina » May 02, 2013 5:38 pm

jamest wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:I would call his work impressionistic, but my guess is the title of "father" of something is reserved usually not for the first to implement it but the first to influence the rest of the community and start the movement.

Turner may have been an impressionist, but might not have been influential enough to be recognized as the "Father of Impressionism".

Was there somebody before him who painted in such a style?

Image
No, they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore,
They don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.

Kinky Friedman
Regina
 
Posts: 15627
Male

Djibouti (dj)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#34  Postby jamest » May 02, 2013 6:58 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
jamest wrote:
Perhaps it is sublime, but what is it? :scratch:


What it is could be subjective, but isn't always an important question. More importantly is, what do you see in it; how does it make you feel; what path does it cause your eyes to take across it; does it intrigue you?

Psychologists would have a field day examining our interpretation of this stuff. I'm ashamed to say that I saw a couple of giant insects on a bed. Gave me the creeps. :oops:
Il messaggero non e importante.
Ora non e importante.
Il resultato futuro e importante.
Quindi, persisto.
jamest
THREAD STARTER
 
Posts: 18527
Male

Country: England
Jolly Roger (arr)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#35  Postby CdesignProponentsist » May 02, 2013 8:47 pm

jamest wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:
jamest wrote:
Perhaps it is sublime, but what is it? :scratch:


What it is could be subjective, but isn't always an important question. More importantly is, what do you see in it; how does it make you feel; what path does it cause your eyes to take across it; does it intrigue you?

Psychologists would have a field day examining our interpretation of this stuff. I'm ashamed to say that I saw a couple of giant insects on a bed. Gave me the creeps. :oops:


:lol:
"Things don't need to be true, as long as they are believed" - Alexander Nix, CEO Cambridge Analytica
User avatar
CdesignProponentsist
 
Posts: 12683
Age: 53
Male

Country: California
United States (us)
Print view this post

Ads by Google


Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#36  Postby Calilasseia » May 03, 2013 1:48 am

ramseyoptom wrote:I suspect one reason the Turner is not credited as the father of Impressionism is a form of art world snobbery. For some continental art critics the idea that a major art movement could be traced to a British artist would be anathema, especially that quite a few of the Impressionists were French.

This may seem a chauvanistic statement, but I have noticed that in the art world, especially the European, that the idea that Britain/England could contribute originality to art is treated as laughable.


The Pre-Raphaelites blow that canard out of the water with a nuclear depth charge. :)
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22082
Age: 59
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#37  Postby Calilasseia » May 03, 2013 1:57 am

Meanwhile, with respect to this:

Turner Painting.jpg
Turner Painting.jpg (40.01 KiB) Viewed 2728 times


What is this supposed to be? I can't work this out from looking at it.
Signature temporarily on hold until I can find a reliable image host ...
User avatar
Calilasseia
RS Donator
 
Posts: 22082
Age: 59
Male

Country: England
United Kingdom (uk)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#38  Postby Mike_L » May 03, 2013 7:42 am

Cinnamon sticks in a mass of semi-creamed butter.
User avatar
Mike_L
 
Posts: 14315
Male

Country: South Africa
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#39  Postby Regina » May 03, 2013 1:35 pm

Calilasseia wrote:
ramseyoptom wrote:I suspect one reason the Turner is not credited as the father of Impressionism is a form of art world snobbery. For some continental art critics the idea that a major art movement could be traced to a British artist would be anathema, especially that quite a few of the Impressionists were French.

This may seem a chauvanistic statement, but I have noticed that in the art world, especially the European, that the idea that Britain/England could contribute originality to art is treated as laughable.


The Pre-Raphaelites blow that canard out of the water with a nuclear depth charge. :)

I find it mildly amusing that the construct of "nationality" still seems to play a role in discussions of art. Or does it still rankle that the Court considered Holbein and van Dyck to be superior to the local talent of the time?
No, they ain't makin' Jews like Jesus anymore,
They don't turn the other cheek the way they done before.

Kinky Friedman
Regina
 
Posts: 15627
Male

Djibouti (dj)
Print view this post

Re: Why is Turner not credited as the father of Impressionism?

#40  Postby orpheus » May 03, 2013 1:58 pm

Regina wrote:
Calilasseia wrote:
ramseyoptom wrote:I suspect one reason the Turner is not credited as the father of Impressionism is a form of art world snobbery. For some continental art critics the idea that a major art movement could be traced to a British artist would be anathema, especially that quite a few of the Impressionists were French.

This may seem a chauvanistic statement, but I have noticed that in the art world, especially the European, that the idea that Britain/England could contribute originality to art is treated as laughable.


The Pre-Raphaelites blow that canard out of the water with a nuclear depth charge. :)

I find it mildly amusing that the construct of "nationality" still seems to play a role in discussions of art. Or does it still rankle that the Court considered Holbein and van Dyck to be superior to the local talent of the time?


Yes, but remember that art is one thing; discussions about art are another. That "nationality" plays a role in discussions about art doesn't mean it plays a role in the making of the art itself. Artists and art critics are quite different animals.
“A way a lone a last a loved a long the”

—James Joyce
User avatar
orpheus
 
Posts: 7274
Age: 56
Male

Country: New York, USA
United States (us)
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to The Arts & Entertainment

Who is online

Users viewing this topic: No registered users and 1 guest