How much does this undermine Islam?

Debunking apologetics for 18:86

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the mosques...

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How much does this undermine Islam?

#1  Postby kanchan » May 07, 2011 9:21 am

I saw this fairly new article about the sun setting in a muddy spring in the Quran and I wonder what you guys make of it? There is a longer version but it is very long and the short version (a big chunk of which is just references) gives the main points.

It's about the verses that say -
18:86 "Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness."

18:90 "Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom." (Pickthall)

Muslims generally say it means this guy went to the far west and east, or that the arabic for the words "setting-place" and "rising-place" really means "setting-time" and "rising-time" here. This article seems to refute that and other apologetics by examining the arabic. It seems to be quite a unique approach to attacking these verses compared to other polemics on this part of the Quran. The most interesting thing in there for me though is how it seems to come from a legend about Alexander the Great and Arabic poems.
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Re: How much does this undermine Islam?

#2  Postby Oeditor » May 08, 2011 7:06 pm

This is good stuff but I'm not really surprised at the poor response - what can one add? However, here's an idea. A lot hinges on the meaning of the mediaeval Arabic. Which has been absorbed into modern Arabic under a series of Muslim empires. It would make sense if ancient words suggesting nasty koranic things had taken on alternative, benign, meanings down the centuries. I'm not suggesting that scholars of mediaeval Arabic have fallen for this, but they're probably quite thinly spread among the billions of Muslims. A majority of whom probably can't understand Arabic anyway.
Thanks Kanchan,
keep up your research!
The very reason food is sealed is to keep information out. - Gary Ablett Snr.
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Re: How much does this undermine Islam?

#3  Postby kanchan » May 09, 2011 9:35 pm

Yeah, I think that does happen. I get the impression the tafseerists were forced into a corner by the science with this one so they had to try to force (badly) a compatible meaning into these verses. It's amazing what you can get away with when it comes to revealed religion, especially with a language like Arabic which may have a precise grammar, but each word can have many different meanings so you can choose what suits you. No worries about lack of replies btw, I just thought it was worth posting in case people found it interesting. This sun setting business is the most conspicuous blunder in the Quran that I've seen. I think it's a good polemic in the sense it leaves little or no room for apologetics to escape. On the other hand, it takes so many words to debunk something thoroughly that few will ever read it. That's a problem with debunking religious texts generally it seems. The believers just need one escape route to maintain their claims, but the polemicist has to cover them all.
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