New Apostolic Reformation

Disturbing movement gaining ground in US

Abrahamic religion, you know, the one with the cross...

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New Apostolic Reformation

#1  Postby theropod » Oct 05, 2011 2:40 pm

LINK to NPR interview with C. Peter Wagner, one of the leaders of this movement. Read the interview, or listen to it (47 min 27 sec) (link in url above).

What's disturbing to me is that this movement has close ties with Texas governor Rick Perry and they have ambitions of turning the US into an even more church run state (despite his claims in the interview that they don't have such ambitions. All one has to do is read the whole interview to see through his bullshit).

This nutjob attributes the earthquake and tsunami in Japan to the emperor having sex with the sun goddess.
"That happened many, many years ago, and that created a spiritual atmosphere over Japan which was an atmosphere ruled by the powers of darkness. The sun goddess is not a very nice lady. The sun goddess is a power of darkness, which is headed up by the kingdom of Satan. And so the sun goddess wants natural disasters to come to Japan. Sometimes the hand of God, which is more powerful, will prevent them. And when he decides to prevent them and when he doesn't is far beyond anything that we can predict."

"But in this case, God could have prevented that tsunami and the destruction, but he didn't. He just took his hand off and allowed these natural forces to work. And one of the background pieces of information is Japan is under control of the sun goddess."


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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#2  Postby The_Metatron » Oct 05, 2011 2:49 pm

Bat shit crazy. The NPR interviewer should have laughed him off the set.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#3  Postby rJD » Oct 05, 2011 2:50 pm

The sun goddess is a power of darkness

:scratch:
With these fuckwits, I really don't know whether it's best to treat them seriously or just mock them relentlessly. I mean, were they to get power, there is no doubt that they would abuse it and be extraordinarily dangerous and harmful but perhaps mocking them is a better strategy to prevent them from getting that power in the first place.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#4  Postby chairman bill » Oct 05, 2011 2:54 pm

Pointing & laughing. Ridicule is the only proper response.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#5  Postby John P. M. » Oct 05, 2011 3:37 pm

Where on earth could he have found grounds to hold such wacky, unevidenced beliefs as Satan, demons, possession and exorcism, and a God that kills people via natural means?

Oh.

Seriously though, they seem like another Christian cult movement, more extreme than most evangelicals, but not that much. It's what happens when the checks of 'reason', 'empathy' and 'embarrassment' are removed from Christian thought, and they go full out crazy with zealotry.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#6  Postby willhud9 » Oct 06, 2011 3:43 am

God had the power to stop the tsunami but chose not to?

First of all, I love the arrogance of these people. Japanese sinned and therefore they got punished. Perhaps its because I was a Baptist associates pastor but ahem Romans 3:23, "For we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God." Hate to break it to you bubs but according to your holy book you guys are just as wretched and just as sinful.

Next, are you trying to say that there were no Christians in Japan? Again hate to break it you, but several missionaries on the International Mission Board died over there during that very Tsunami. But I guess they must have been contaminated with the paganism of the Japanese.

Finally, sun goddess? Are you admitting belief in another deity? Oh dear. God's gonna need to have some serious talking with you. :naughty:
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#7  Postby lobawad » Oct 06, 2011 5:01 am

willhud9 wrote:

Finally, sun goddess? Are you admitting belief in another deity? Oh dear. God's gonna need to have some serious talking with you. :naughty:


Good call.

Once you realize that Christianity in practice is actually monolatry, not monotheism, everything becomes much clearer.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#8  Postby rustynuts II » Oct 06, 2011 10:12 am

Crazy. Completely barking mad. If only there was a time machine so these people could be transported back to the dark ages where they belong.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#9  Postby Clive Durdle » Oct 06, 2011 11:52 am

barking mad
'empathy'


It seems mirror neurons are very involved with this.

http://www.psychologicalscience.org/obs ... fm?id=2167

Mirror Neurons: How We Reflect on Behavior

By Eric Jaffe

In the mid-1990s, scientists at the University of Parma, in Italy, made a discovery so novel that it shifted the way psychologists discuss the brain. After researchers implanted electrodes into the heads of monkeys, they noticed a burst of activity in the premotor cortex when the animals clutched a piece of food. In a wonderfully fictitious account of the discovery, neuroscientist Giacomo Rizzolatti was licking ice cream in the lab when this same region again fired in the monkeys. In an equally wonderful truthful account, the neurons in this region did, in fact, fire when the monkeys merely watched researchers handle food.

Mirror neurons — the tiny neurological structures that fire both when we perceive action and take it, exposing the true social nature of the brain — had been identified. Since that time, the term has become a powerful buzz phrase: technical enough to impress at dinner parties; simple enough to explain to Grandma; sweeter sounding than, say, the Bose-Einstein condensate. Recently, I wrote an article for this magazine about the power of movies on behavior; to my surprise, many researchers discussed, without prompting, the role mirror neurons play in explaining why viewers connect so strongly with on-screen emotions. A short while later I read an article in Time magazine that said mirror neurons might form the basis for empathy, social behavior, and even language. One psychologist placed these neurons on the same plane as DNA in the realm of scientific discovery.

Mirror neurons, it seems, are of the utmost importance in human mind, and on the tip of the collective psychological tongue.

“It’s going to make a big change,” says neuroscientist Marco Iacoboni, University of California, Los Angeles, of the discovery’s impact on psychology. “Psychological studies started with the idea that a solitary mind looks at the world in a detached way. Mirror neurons tell us we’re literally in the minds of other people.”

Multitasking Mental Cells
The striking implication of mirror neurons is that the same brain region that controls action also supports perception, writes Günther Knoblich, Rutgers University, in the June 2006 Current Directions in Psychological Science. If observing behavior occurs in the same area as actually behaving, then social interaction would seem to play a large role in cognition. It explains, for example, why spectators at a boxing match sometimes jab at the air and why seeing a violent blow to the head makes them recoil physically. The poet John Donne was on the right track: We are not islands, unto ourselves.

This social link between perception and action can be traced back to William James, says Knoblich. James explained that performing a movement required first having a mental picture of that movement. In the 1970s and 1980s, psychologists like APS Fellow Anthony Greenwald and Wolfgang Prinz extended this ideomotor principle, demonstrating that seeing and doing branch off the same tree.

But it was the work done with monkeys in Rizzolatti’s lab that gave a name to the multitasking mental cells that make this possible. Mirror neurons fire when monkeys break peanuts in their hands, when they see others break peanuts — even when, in total darkness, they merely hear peanuts being broken. “That’s why it’s called a mirror neuron,” says Iacoboni. “It’s almost like the monkey is watching his own action reflected by the mirror.”

Mirror neurons haven’t been pinpointed in people with the same precision that electrodes can pinpoint them in monkeys. (As a result, many researchers refer to a general “mirror system.”) Still, several recent functional imaging studies support a social side to human cognition, with which people internally replay the actions they view in another before acting themselves.

In a 2003 study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, a research team that included Iacoboni found that imitating and observing facial expressions activated the same regions of the brain. A study in Science a year later showed activity in similar neural regions whether a subject actually experienced a painful stimulus or simply observed a loved one receiving the same shock. To many researchers, these and similar findings suggest that mirror neurons play a large role in empathy....


I propose that cults and religions continually use techniques that damage empathic responses. Kneeling, eyes closed in prayer, submissive postures, all actually prevent eye contact and learning to get on with others. The result is madness like this.

I propose religion and cults causes serious mental illness by being hierarchical and encouraging behaviours that discourage direct interactions with other humans. Interestingly the Islamic face veil also does this.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#10  Postby rJD » Oct 06, 2011 12:20 pm

Interestingly, I was listening to a Point of Inquiry podcast about Dominionism last night, details here, and this particular bunch of nutters was mentioned and discussed.
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Re: New Apostolic Reformation

#11  Postby AlohaChris » Oct 06, 2011 1:29 pm

rJD wrote:
The sun goddess is a power of darkness

:scratch:
With these fuckwits, I really don't know whether it's best to treat them seriously or just mock them relentlessly. I mean, were they to get power, there is no doubt that they would abuse it and be extraordinarily dangerous and harmful but perhaps mocking them is a better strategy to prevent them from getting that power in the first place.


Mock the relentlessly? Yes. Do not laugh at them, they are deadly serious about grabbing power.
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