[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_q0qvfBqE[/youtube]




You would think God in his infinite wisdom would have noticed the change and spread of languages, and chosen one less prone to dying out? After all, this is a pretty important message that he is trying to communicate to us.

Boring...

No it wasn't, he made a potentially dry subject fun and interesting.

John

God only speaks in tongues; blahwabaleebabobalalalawoopwoopahbebadabamoahalelasoobiedooowoopimascatman!

z8000783 wrote:No it wasn't, he made a potentially dry subject fun and interesting.

I agree. I especially liked his illustration of the distinction between legality and ethics, and how US law doesn't frame itself in moral terms. One for the legalistic fundies to dwell on.

HughMcB wrote:God only speaks in tongues; blahwabaleebabobalalalawoopwoopahbebadabamoahalelasoobiedooowoopimascatman!

Yes Hugh, I WILL marry you

Byron wrote:

z8000783 wrote:No it wasn't, he made a potentially dry subject fun and interesting.

I agree. I especially liked his illustration of the distinction between legality and ethics, and how US law doesn't frame itself in moral terms. One for the legalistic fundies to dwell on.

I second that agree.

One of the last things I did with my church was a study on the Ten Commandments. My Pastor, as well as many other pastors across the world, took a position that the 10 Commandments were not just forbidding an action but the thought of the action. Quoting Matthew 5:21- onward. Pretty much the "Have hate you committed murder, have lust you committed adultery."

I being but a simple associate pastor had not much voice in the sermons being taught, but I was vocal against my pastor at how he chose to present the test. I am fluent in Koine to the point I can read it and write it accurately, let me tell you, it's not a pretty change into English. There are words in Greek that we have no modern equivalent and so we have to use best bet. That or there may be a word and we have several possible words that can fill the spot.

The amount of Hebrew I know is 10x harder to translate into English. Is it any wonder why the LXX was used to translate into the native languages rather than the original Hebrew texts?

However, when the speaker discussed the 10th commandment (covet) it made one think. Out of all the ten commandments, 9 are all physical actions (Have no other gods, make no idol, do not take the lord name in vain, honor the sabbath, honor parents, do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, and do not bear false witness.) But covet is not a physical action like the others. It's out of place. Not when you take the Hebrew word and put it into context. There it means take in envy. All physical.

The original ten commandments were physical requirements of the Israelites. The gospels "raise the bar" when it comes to how to follow them and it makes sense as Paul would later urge against legalism and rather have people follow the "new law."

Far from boring, this stuff genuinely interests me.

Fascinating stuff, Will!

The gospels have Jesus preaching the Beatitudes precisely because the Mosaic Law doesn't go far enough for him. Given the gospels' tendency to water-down Jesus' statements -- as with Matthew adding a qualifier to the divorce ban -- and the appearance of this sayings tradition in Paul, I strongly suspect that there's a historical base to all this.

I do wonder, though, whether the Beatitudes aren't just another kind of law. Do not look at a woman in lust; or direct anger at a person: those are actions of a kind, albeit thought-crimes. Which builds on the underlying method of the Mosaic Law, and leads to Paul's attempt to internalize the law via the presence of Yahweh's Spirit.

The distinctions and nuance also interest me, as does the retreat of so much Christianity into legalism. Usually combined with hot denial, and denunciation of "religions of rules, instead of a relationship with God" -- talk about projection!

willhud9 wrote:However, when the speaker discussed the 10th commandment (covet) it made one think. Out of all the ten commandments, 9 are all physical actions (Have no other gods, make no idol, do not take the lord name in vain, honor the sabbath, honor parents, do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, and do not bear false witness.) But covet is not a physical action like the others. It's out of place. Not when you take the Hebrew word and put it into context. There it means take in envy. All physical.

So it's a subset of stealing then?

John

Mayak wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_q0qvfBqE[/youtube]




You would think God in his infinite wisdom would have noticed the change and spread of languages, and chosen one less prone to dying out? After all, this is a pretty important message that he is trying to communicate to us.

Especially since He created all these langages (genesis 11.1 to 11.7).
He's supposed to be omniscient, but maybe this "science" doesn't apply to himself, he didn't know he was going to do that

Apart from that, for someone who alledgedly has complete knowledge of all events in the universe, he certainly seems to have had quite the penchant for 'local news', didn't he?

willhud9 wrote:

Byron wrote:

z8000783 wrote:No it wasn't, he made a potentially dry subject fun and interesting.

I agree. I especially liked his illustration of the distinction between legality and ethics, and how US law doesn't frame itself in moral terms. One for the legalistic fundies to dwell on.

I second that agree.

One of the last things I did with my church was a study on the Ten Commandments. My Pastor, as well as many other pastors across the world, took a position that the 10 Commandments were not just forbidding an action but the thought of the action. Quoting Matthew 5:21- onward. Pretty much the "Have hate you committed murder, have lust you committed adultery."

I being but a simple associate pastor had not much voice in the sermons being taught, but I was vocal against my pastor at how he chose to present the test. I am fluent in Koine to the point I can read it and write it accurately, let me tell you, it's not a pretty change into English. There are words in Greek that we have no modern equivalent and so we have to use best bet. That or there may be a word and we have several possible words that can fill the spot.

The amount of Hebrew I know is 10x harder to translate into English. Is it any wonder why the LXX was used to translate into the native languages rather than the original Hebrew texts?

However, when the speaker discussed the 10th commandment (covet) it made one think. Out of all the ten commandments, 9 are all physical actions (Have no other gods, make no idol, do not take the lord name in vain, honor the sabbath, honor parents, do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, and do not bear false witness.) But covet is not a physical action like the others. It's out of place. Not when you take the Hebrew word and put it into context. There it means take in envy. All physical.

The original ten commandments were physical requirements of the Israelites. The gospels "raise the bar" when it comes to how to follow them and it makes sense as Paul would later urge against legalism and rather have people follow the "new law."

Far from boring, this stuff genuinely interests me.

I don't get it: how is honoring your parents a physical action? Or for that matter not killing someone, or not having another god?

Honour in Hebrew literally means physically respect. It's a physical action. You do not disobey your parents, you do not talk back at your parents, etc. To honour a parent means you physically respect them. You could hate your parents all day, but as long as you honour them, you are not breaking the Commandment.

As for killing, lying, stealing etc. The Commandment says "Do Not Murder, Bear False Witness, Steal" All of which are physical actions. God is saying do NOT commit those actions.

Having another God is again a Physical action. You choose to worship another god that is not YAHWEH.

Each Commandment there is a physical element.

willhud9 wrote:Honour in Hebrew literally means physically respect. It's a physical action. You do not disobey your parents, you do not talk back at your parents, etc. To honour a parent means you physically respect them. You could hate your parents all day, but as long as you honour them, you are not breaking the Commandment.

As for killing, lying, stealing etc. The Commandment says "Do Not Murder, Bear False Witness, Steal" All of which are physical actions. God is saying do NOT commit those actions.

Having another God is again a Physical action. You choose to worship another god that is not YAHWEH.

Each Commandment there is a physical element.

Maybe I'm dense but I still don't see how honouring your parents is a physical act. Exactly what is the physical movement of doing so? Getting them a cup of tea, rubbing their feet? Or is it just being respectful of them which is a mental act not a physical one.

Likewise worshipping or merely acknowledging another god, this is a mental thing not a physical thing.

It seems to me that most of the commandments are actually commandments about the state of mind this God wants you to have.

I am presently sitting in a chair barely moving, but I am definitely not committing murder. Later this evening I will be asleep and about as physically inactive as it is possible to be and I will still not be committing murder, so how is it a physical act?