Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#461  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 03, 2012 4:35 pm

THWOTH wrote:
AP wrote:... almost certainly does exist ...

Sounds like there's a big 'but' coming. :ask:


It is just being cautious. No one wants to be the guy who says "WE FOUND IT!" and wind up on every headline in the world before it is official on that slim chance that it it turns out to be an anomaly.

I think think the rest of us can pretty safely say, they found the Higgs.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#462  Postby THWOTH » Jul 03, 2012 4:52 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
AP wrote:... almost certainly does exist ...

Sounds like there's a big 'but' coming. :ask:


It is just being cautious. No one wants to be the guy who says "WE FOUND IT!" and wind up on every headline in the world before it is official on that slim chance that it it turns out to be an anomaly.

Yeah, like them pesky FTL neutrinos earlier in the year.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#463  Postby Dudely » Jul 03, 2012 5:06 pm

newolder wrote:^ 2 x 4 sigma from 2 sepr8 speriments combined iznt enuff awlreddee? :ask:


A 4 sigma result from two separate experiments is still 4 sigma. You CAN combine them to get more, but again, they are being very cautious with this.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#464  Postby CdesignProponentsist » Jul 03, 2012 5:59 pm

THWOTH wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
AP wrote:... almost certainly does exist ...

Sounds like there's a big 'but' coming. :ask:


It is just being cautious. No one wants to be the guy who says "WE FOUND IT!" and wind up on every headline in the world before it is official on that slim chance that it it turns out to be an anomaly.

Yeah, like them pesky FTL neutrinos earlier in the year.


Precisely like that :tehe:
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#465  Postby Rumraket » Jul 04, 2012 5:08 am

For fucks sake it's being called "God's particle" all over danish media. I think I might throw up.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#466  Postby Pulsar » Jul 04, 2012 6:31 am

Rumraket wrote:For fucks sake it's being called "God's particle" all over danish media. I think I might throw up.


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:grin:
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#467  Postby Pulsar » Jul 04, 2012 6:40 am

The seminar starts in 20 minutes: http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/play_higgs.html
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#468  Postby mraltair » Jul 04, 2012 7:52 am

I like how the bloke didn't seem that impressed with 4.9 sigma. :lol: I'd be over the fucking moon at this point.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#469  Postby Pulsar » Jul 04, 2012 8:01 am

Yes, astronomers would kill for that :lol:

It's interesting though that the significance went down after they added the tau/anti-tau decays. That might mean that the Higgs boson deviates from the Standard Model. To be continued...
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#470  Postby DoctorE » Jul 04, 2012 10:38 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chLP_L7Rt5U[/youtube]
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#471  Postby THWOTH » Jul 04, 2012 11:21 am

Along with the 'God particle' news anchors will be falling over themselves to introduce their packages with something like, "The Higgs boson tells us why matter matters."

Interesting in the video clip above that the interview takes a decidedly, "How do you feel" approach - Science as sport.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#472  Postby trubble76 » Jul 04, 2012 12:00 pm

CdesignProponentsist wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
CdesignProponentsist wrote:
THWOTH wrote:
Sounds like there's a big 'but' coming. :ask:


It is just being cautious. No one wants to be the guy who says "WE FOUND IT!" and wind up on every headline in the world before it is official on that slim chance that it it turns out to be an anomaly.

Yeah, like them pesky FTL neutrinos earlier in the year.


Precisely like that :tehe:


I thought that was very different. Didn't the discoverers of the anomalous figure claim that they thought it was probably down to an error but they couldn't find it, so they put it out for other to have a go? I don't think they ever claimed any sort of certainty that the Lightspeed barrier had been broken, did they?
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#473  Postby newolder » Jul 04, 2012 1:02 pm

Geometric forgetting gives me loops. - Nima A-H
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#474  Postby trubble76 » Jul 04, 2012 3:50 pm

So anyway, I have a question for you fizix types. What now? Clearly they have found something which appears to be the proposed boson and they will now need to confirm their findings and then investigate the properties of the boson, but where does the road lead after confirmation and dissection? What mysteries stand to be solved and how? Or do we not yet know the questions that will be answered? Is this the discovery that will lead to anti-gravity tech or is that fanciful sci-fi? Will it lead to astonishing new abilities for the human race or do we have no idea where it will lead us?
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#475  Postby newolder » Jul 04, 2012 6:18 pm

well,.. we've found 1 'new thang' (an possiblee moar...) at lhc cruise speeds (4 TeV/c2 per beam) ... jus wq8 til they turn it up 2 14 an mayb byond... :smoke:

at least it helps rule out some of teh moar exotik theories, like technicolor &c...
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#476  Postby THWOTH » Jul 04, 2012 6:34 pm

Image
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#477  Postby newolder » Jul 04, 2012 6:36 pm

remindz me... wer did farsight go? lol
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#478  Postby lpetrich » Jul 04, 2012 8:06 pm

trubble76 wrote:So anyway, I have a question for you fizix types. What now? Clearly they have found something which appears to be the proposed boson and they will now need to confirm their findings and then investigate the properties of the boson, but where does the road lead after confirmation and dissection? What mysteries stand to be solved and how? ...

There are lots of puzzles in the Standard Model. Here are its free parameters:

Quark, lepton masses: 9
Quark mixing angles: 4
Strong CP-violation angle: 1
Gauge "charges": 3
Higgs-particle parameters: 2
Total: 19
Neutrino masses and mixing angles add another 3 + 4 = 7, for a grand total of 26.


Its gauge-multiplet structure is rather byzantine. Its overall gauge symmetry is SU(3)*SU(2)*U(1)
SU(3) -- Quantum Chromodynamics
SU(2) -- Weak Isospin
U(1) -- Weak Hypercharge: average electric charge of a weak-isospin multiplet
Electric charge: (weak-isospin projection) + hypercharge

QCD multiplets: 3: quark, 3*: antiquark, 8: gluon (quark * antiquark - colorless)
WIS multiplets: number is how many particles are in them

(QCD multiplet, WIS multiplet, WHC value)

Gauge:
gluon g (QCD carrier): (8,1,0)
W (WIS carrier): (1,3,0)
B (WHC carrier): (1,1,0)
Electroweak symmetry breaking: the W+ and W- become massive, while the W0 and B mix to make the photon (massless) and the Z (massive)

Higgs H: (1,2,1/2) or (1,2,-1/2)

Elementary fermions: 3 generations, both left-handed and right-handed. I'm listing antiparticles here also; they have reverse chirality / handedness.
Left-handed quark Q: (3,2,1/6) -- (3*,2,-1/6)
Right-handed up U: (3,1,2/3) -- (3*,1,-2/3)
Right-handed down D: (3,1,-1/3) -- (3*,1,1/3)
Left-handed lepton L: (1,2,-1/2) -- (1,2,1/2)
Right-handed neutrino N: (1,1,0) -- (1,1,0)
Right-handed electron E: (1,1,-1) -- (1,1,1)
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#479  Postby lpetrich » Jul 04, 2012 8:36 pm

newolder wrote:remindz me... wer did farsight go? lol

Here: Physics Discussion Forum • Index page

In another board, Farsight and I had had this exchange:
Farsight wrote:
lpetrich wrote:The mystery of mass is:
What fixes the rest masses of the massive elementary particles
What does so in a fashion consistent with the symmetries of the unbroken Standard Model
One needs Higgs doublets or some equivalents for those.
Hurry up and move the goalposts quick, because that's not how it's been sold to a gullible public. This is how it's been sold: Elementary particle masses are thought to come about from the interaction with the Higgs field. It's garbage. I know it, you know it, and soon everybody will know it.

That's rather typical of what he thinks about the Higgs particle.
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Re: Large Hadron Collider (LHC) News

#480  Postby trubble76 » Jul 05, 2012 7:03 am

lpetrich wrote:
trubble76 wrote:So anyway, I have a question for you fizix types. What now? Clearly they have found something which appears to be the proposed boson and they will now need to confirm their findings and then investigate the properties of the boson, but where does the road lead after confirmation and dissection? What mysteries stand to be solved and how? ...

There are lots of puzzles in the Standard Model. Here are its free parameters:

Quark, lepton masses: 9
Quark mixing angles: 4
Strong CP-violation angle: 1
Gauge "charges": 3
Higgs-particle parameters: 2
Total: 19
Neutrino masses and mixing angles add another 3 + 4 = 7, for a grand total of 26.


Its gauge-multiplet structure is rather byzantine. Its overall gauge symmetry is SU(3)*SU(2)*U(1)
SU(3) -- Quantum Chromodynamics
SU(2) -- Weak Isospin
U(1) -- Weak Hypercharge: average electric charge of a weak-isospin multiplet
Electric charge: (weak-isospin projection) + hypercharge

QCD multiplets: 3: quark, 3*: antiquark, 8: gluon (quark * antiquark - colorless)
WIS multiplets: number is how many particles are in them

(QCD multiplet, WIS multiplet, WHC value)

Gauge:
gluon g (QCD carrier): (8,1,0)
W (WIS carrier): (1,3,0)
B (WHC carrier): (1,1,0)
Electroweak symmetry breaking: the W+ and W- become massive, while the W0 and B mix to make the photon (massless) and the Z (massive)

Higgs H: (1,2,1/2) or (1,2,-1/2)

Elementary fermions: 3 generations, both left-handed and right-handed. I'm listing antiparticles here also; they have reverse chirality / handedness.
Left-handed quark Q: (3,2,1/6) -- (3*,2,-1/6)
Right-handed up U: (3,1,2/3) -- (3*,1,-2/3)
Right-handed down D: (3,1,-1/3) -- (3*,1,1/3)
Left-handed lepton L: (1,2,-1/2) -- (1,2,1/2)
Right-handed neutrino N: (1,1,0) -- (1,1,0)
Right-handed electron E: (1,1,-1) -- (1,1,1)


I appreciate you taking the time to reply. I wish I understood what you wrote, but it looks pretty anyway. Does any of it mean I'll be getting my FTL hovercar yet?
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