"Cold Fusion"

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"Cold Fusion"

#1  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 01, 2010 5:51 am

Anyone have any thoughts on it? Actual phenomenon, or just pathological science? Ideas on what might actually be going on?
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#2  Postby Tbickle » Mar 01, 2010 6:00 am

I would like it to be true, and there have been a few instances where people have claimed success without it being duplicated. Until it can be demonstrated, it is still only speculation but merits continued research.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#3  Postby The_Metatron » Mar 13, 2010 4:47 pm

I think those pesky laws of thermodynamics are going to be problematic.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#4  Postby FedUpWithFaith » Mar 13, 2010 5:01 pm

Cold fusion is already reality. It's just not practical for making energy and may never be based on the current method. It is in the process of being applied to medical generation of neutrons though.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#5  Postby campermon » Mar 13, 2010 5:03 pm

FedUpWithFaith wrote:Cold fusion is already reality. It's just not practical for making energy and may never be based on the current method. It is in the process of being applied to medical generation of neutrons though.


Any links for that?

;)
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#6  Postby FedUpWithFaith » Mar 13, 2010 5:04 pm

campermon wrote:
FedUpWithFaith wrote:Cold fusion is already reality. It's just not practical for making energy and may never be based on the current method. It is in the process of being applied to medical generation of neutrons though.


Any links for that?

;)



I was reading about it about 5 months ago. I'll see if i can dig something up.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#7  Postby campermon » Mar 13, 2010 5:07 pm

FedUpWithFaith wrote:
campermon wrote:
FedUpWithFaith wrote:Cold fusion is already reality. It's just not practical for making energy and may never be based on the current method. It is in the process of being applied to medical generation of neutrons though.


Any links for that?

;)



I was reading about it about 5 months ago. I'll see if i can dig something up.


:thumbup:
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#8  Postby twistor59 » Mar 13, 2010 5:18 pm

There was this, but I doubt if anything significant came of it.

ETA No, I thought not
Last edited by twistor59 on Mar 13, 2010 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#9  Postby FedUpWithFaith » Mar 13, 2010 5:20 pm

It took me a while to find because its called Pyroelectric fusion. It's not called cold fusion because it doesn't occur at room temperature and because the discoverers didn't want it tarnished with the "Cold Fusion" label. But it can be done on a desktop at relatively low ambient temperatures.

This link will direct you to all the peer-reviewed science:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#10  Postby campermon » Mar 13, 2010 5:39 pm

FedUpWithFaith wrote:It took me a while to find because its called Pyroelectric fusion. It's not called cold fusion because it doesn't occur at room temperature and because the discoverers didn't want it tarnished with the "Cold Fusion" label. But it can be done on a desktop at relatively low ambient temperatures.

This link will direct you to all the peer-reviewed science:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectric_fusion


:thumbup:
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#11  Postby atrasicarius » Mar 13, 2010 11:04 pm

Well, I'm familiar with that, and also with muon catalyzed fusion. Those are real effects, no debate there. What I was talking about is the Fleischmann-Pons effect.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#12  Postby twistor59 » Mar 14, 2010 8:03 am

atrasicarius wrote:Well, I'm familiar with that, and also with muon catalyzed fusion. Those are real effects, no debate there. What I was talking about is the Fleischmann-Pons effect.


If you've got some time to spare, watch this video, from the American Chemical Society, and see what you think

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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#13  Postby cateye » Mar 14, 2010 5:22 pm

Interesting! Is there any info on the energy balance? Sounds like it's good as a neutron source, but I can't imagine how to gain net energy from that...
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#14  Postby twistor59 » Mar 14, 2010 5:48 pm

cateye wrote:Interesting! Is there any info on the energy balance? Sounds like it's good as a neutron source, but I can't imagine how to gain net energy from that...


I'm not really sure what to make of it either. It sounds like there's a "club" with a handful of aging physicist/chemists still doing this work on a shoestring budget, and they've found some evidence of heat generation and neutron production, (but not with the usual accompanying gamma ray bursts). However, they don't seem to be able to convince the majority of scientists to take it seriously. Is this because their experimental techniques really are poor, or is it because the establishment is too closed minded to check it out ?

I assume "the establisment" did check out Pond and Fleischmann's work and were unable to reproduce it, so I could easily imagine their attitude being "why should we waste any more time on this". I guess a balance needs to be struck between being open minded and having your time wasted, like on this perpetual motion technology, which has even attracted funding recently.
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#15  Postby cateye » Mar 14, 2010 5:52 pm

I'm pretty sure that in the Ponds/Fleischmann case it has been checked out. Perpetual motion? I haven't clicked on the link yet, but I'm already very suspicious just by the title :lol:

EDIT:
Orbo technology is controversial - science tells us that energy can not be created - yet Orbo does this. Orbo is an over unity technology - it provides more energy out than is put in.

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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#16  Postby twistor59 » Mar 14, 2010 6:11 pm

You and I may scoff at the flagrant disregard for Mr Carnot's physics, but:

from the wikipedia entry

The company's investment history shows several share allotments for cash between August 2000 and October 2005,[12] the investments totalling €3 million.[10] In 2006, Steorn secured €8.1 million in loans from a range of investors in order to continue their research, and these funds were also converted into shares.[13] Steorn said that they would seek no further funding while attempting to prove their free-energy claim in order to demonstrate their genuine desire for validation.[13]


So whether it's perpetual motion, or cold fusion, if it's marketed properly, you can get your hands on some dollars...
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Re: "Cold Fusion"

#17  Postby cateye » Mar 14, 2010 6:15 pm

twistor59 wrote:You and I may scoff at the flagrant disregard for Mr Carnot's physics, but:

from the wikipedia entry

The company's investment history shows several share allotments for cash between August 2000 and October 2005,[12] the investments totalling €3 million.[10] In 2006, Steorn secured €8.1 million in loans from a range of investors in order to continue their research, and these funds were also converted into shares.[13] Steorn said that they would seek no further funding while attempting to prove their free-energy claim in order to demonstrate their genuine desire for validation.[13]


So whether it's perpetual motion, or cold fusion, if it's marketed properly, you can get your hands on some dollars...

Well both of us have been arguing on this kind of forum long enough, to know that getting huge money out of totally ridiculous claims is no news.... unfortunately. I have often pondered the question if I should try to do such a money-making scheme myself, but I guess I simply couldn't tell people bullshit while keeping a straight face and not burst into laughter...
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'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance

#18  Postby RichardPrins » Mar 21, 2010 6:23 pm

'Cold fusion' moves closer to mainstream acceptance
SAN FRANCISCO, March 21, 2010 — A potential new energy source so controversial that people once regarded it as junk science is moving closer to acceptance by the mainstream scientific community. That's the conclusion of the organizer of one of the largest scientific sessions on the topic — "cold fusion" — being held here for the next two days in the Moscone Center during the 239th National Meeting of the American Chemical Society (ACS).

"Years ago, many scientists were afraid to speak about 'cold fusion' to a mainstream audience," said Jan Marwan, Ph.D., the internationally known expert who organized the symposium. Marwan heads the research firm, Dr. Marwan Chemie in Berlin, Germany. Entitled "New Energy Technology," the symposium will include nearly 50 presentations describing the latest discoveries on the topic.

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A new "calorimeter, " shown immersed in this water bath, provides the first inexpensive means of identifying the hallmark of cold fusion reactions: the production of excess heat.

The presentations describe invention of an inexpensive new measuring device that could enable more labs to begin cold fusion research; indications that cold fusion may occur naturally in certain bacteria; progress toward a battery based on cold fusion; and a range of other topics. Marwan noted that many of the presentations suggest that cold fusion is real, with a potential to contribute to energy supplies in the 21st Century.

"Now most of the scientists are no longer afraid and most of the cold fusion researchers are attracted to the ACS meeting," Marwan said. "I've also noticed that the field is gaining new researchers from universities that had previously not pursued cold fusion research. More and more people are becoming interested in it. There's still some resistance to this field. But we just have to keep on as we have done so far, exploring cold fusion step by step, and that will make it a successful alternative energy source. With time and patience, I'm really optimistic we can do this!"

The term "cold fusion" originated in 1989 when Martin Fleishmann and Stanley Pons claimed achieving nuclear fusion at room temperature with a simple, inexpensive tabletop device. That claim fomented an international sensation because nuclear fusion holds potential for providing the world with a virtually limitless new source of energy. Fuel for fusion comes from ordinary seawater, and estimates indicate that 1 gallon of seawater packs the energy equivalent of 16 gallons of gasoline at 100 percent efficiency for energy production. The claim also ignited scepticism, because conventional wisdom said that achieving fusion required multi-billion-dollar fusion reactors that operate at tens of millions of degrees Fahrenheit.

When other scientists could not reproduce the Pons-Fleishmann results, research on cold fusion fell into disrepute. Humiliated by the scientific establishment, their reputations ruined, Pons and Fleishmann closed their labs, fled the country, and dropped out of sight. The handful of scientists who continued research avoided the term "cold fusion." Instead, they used the term "low energy nuclear reactions (LENR)." Research papers at the ACS symposium openly refer to "cold fusion" and some describe cold fusion as the "Fleishmann-Pons Effect" in honor of the pioneers, Marwan noted. (...)
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Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#19  Postby tnjrp » Mar 22, 2010 10:38 am

Or so says Jan Marwan, Ph.D., "the internationally known expert" and an organizer of a symposium on cold fusion to be held at the 239th National Meeting of the American Chemical Society, according to Science Daily:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 182909.htm

Let's see what develops, shall we?
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Re: Cold Fusion "closer to mainstream acceptance"

#20  Postby jerome » Mar 22, 2010 10:56 am

Interesting. Er, nope, seen no evidence of this "mainstream acceptance" yet - but maybe something has been found. Be interesting to watch

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