The_Metatron wrote:Pretend-rape for fun.

Yeah, I'm sure that's healthy.

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Just as healthy as reading about it in books, watching it in movies, etc.

It is called a character. So when an actor creates a persona in a movie who is a rapist that means he is an unhealthy person obviously?

Please, spare me.

Oh, no. Go ahead. Play-rape till your pretend sack falls off.

I will, whenever I create a sadistic, disgusting character who is a rapist.

Because I know the difference between make-believe and reality and don't make condescending or judgmental remarks about people who create characters in a fictional setting.

What judgmental remark about whom?

Up until a short time ago, you were demonstrably unable to separate fiction from reality. What's changed?

Would this rape play be cool for an eight year old kid?

No?

Why not?

The_Metatron wrote:What judgmental remark about whom?

Remarks made in a sarcastic manner about the health of someone who plays violent make-believe.

Up until a short time ago, you were demonstrably unable to separate fiction from reality. What's changed?

I hope you seriously are not comparing make-believe in a fantasy-like world to religion in our real world? Because that is comparing apples and oranges.

Would this rape play be cool for an eight year old kid?

No?

Why not?

Probably not but then again D&D is rated T for teen and a lot of groups (including ours) usually had an age restriction. Are games such as GTA cool for an eight year old kid? Guess we should not allow them either.

willhud9 wrote:
It is called a character. So when an actor creates a persona in a movie who is a rapist that means he is an unhealthy person obviously?

Please, spare me.

Surely there's a difference between a movie containing a rapist that is the antagonist, a movie with a protagonist that rapes someone, and a villainous protagonist rapist that you control (and possibly take pleasure in?). My preference: None of the above.

Most of my disgust emanates from my inability to let myself be emotionally unaffected by the things I see and hear, and then I wonder aloud how another could be so callous. Being able to separate fantasy and reality doesn't mean fantasy has no effect. If not disgust, I would hope something else from an empathic position. Even a little? (crickets)

maichem wrote:

willhud9 wrote:
It is called a character. So when an actor creates a persona in a movie who is a rapist that means he is an unhealthy person obviously?

Please, spare me.

Surely there's a difference between a movie containing a rapist that is the antagonist, a movie with a protagonist that rapes someone, and a villainous protagonist rapist that you control (and possibly take pleasure in?). My preference: None of the above.

Most of my disgust emanates from my inability to let myself be emotionally unaffected by the things I see and hear, and then I wonder aloud how another could be so callous. Being able to separate fantasy and reality doesn't mean fantasy has no effect. If not disgust, I would hope something else from an empathic position. Even a little? (crickets)

The difference being I am not taking pleasure in the rape. I just created the character and enjoyed playing a villainous and disgusting character (much like many actors love playing the asshole villain i.e. villains are generally fun to play).

I am able to differentiate the fact that ethically, morally, and legally rape is abhorrent in my reality versus a character that does not exist and that character's morals. I do not condone it, I do not support it, I do not even fantasize about me actually doing it because I find it disgusting.

But I am not going to go all moral absolutist and say that such a gameplay decision such as rape or violent murder is amoral or even a reflection of a person's personal psyche/personality. It is just a game.

The mature people are generally those who realize it is just a game. These people are generally annoyed at the "concerned" adults in relation to violence in the media.

I knew I shouldn't have wandered into this thread.

So Valve pulled Hatred from Greenlight.

I'm okay with this.

It doesn't look good to me for the simple fact that it looks like it would get old fast. Just like playing GTA aimlessly killing innocents gets old fast.

Ethically or morally I've no objection.

Boyle wrote:So Valve pulled Hatred from Greenlight.

I'm okay with this.

From the linked article: fashion label Björn Borg's pisstake spoof of the game trailer:

Thommo wrote:The thing I find interesting with this Hatred is the small subsection of people who would defend Gears of War, but criticize Hatred.

Chances are that there's no objective reason to worry about either game (i.e. neither will encourage behaviour in any but the most disturbed of minds, who are already prone to it), and both are in truly dreadful taste.

I won't be playing this, although it's probably due to it not looking good more than due to it being in poor taste, although that does influence my judgement somewhat.

For me it's not the gratuitous violence aspect, but the scene and motivation. I mean, I played the hell out of GTA (though my impression of GTA is influenced by the sequels, which made the protagonist out for power, not mass murder. A slight distinction, yeah, but important for me) and Mortal Kombat, but those didn't feel dark in the same way Hatred does. Or how Postal did. I didn't like Postal, and I like seeing it even less now.

For those that mostly remember Postal as Postal 2 and 3, here's a long video (2 hours) of Postal 1, culminating in the Postal Dude trying to shoot up an elementary school. Wasn't funny or anything like that, just "cleansing" the town.

Thommo wrote:Well, as I said in my first post.

GOURANGA!

GTA (the original GTA, not the rebooted 3d franchise starting with GTA3) was quite happy to use this as motivation, it was a fun game though. Missions were for score multiplier, murder was for score.

From what I remember you were still playing for "power" in the sense that you did most of the terrible shit for some crime syndicate. I also remember it having a bit more levity than Postal did, or what Hatred does. That could be totally off because I've not played them in a while, so I might download them and play them this weekend.

Thommo wrote:It's utterly foul, but it has absolutely no impact on someone's real values. I sincerely doubt that Wil's "roll a dice to rape now" scenario impacted him at all and I've no more reason to suspect him of being a rapist than anyone else in this thread.

I don't think it has an impact on real values so much either, but I won't worry about a game like Hatred (or Postal, if it does get pulled now) being taken down from Greenlight. I actually would be for the game if it also incorporated how the protagonist got his views that humanity is a plague, and went through that story line with some depth. Sorta like "Play through Kaczynski's life to understand how people get to that point of desperation." As it is, I'm not for it being banned, but I really don't mind it being pulled from some private companies listing.

Speculation: What it does remind me of, though, is the publicity that people like Elliot Rogers got, and how loads of folks were wondering if the publicity could encourage other maligned people to get up and kill. I wonder if games like this could influence already off-kilter folks just enough to go through with it. Or, to flip it, it could reduce their need to do it now that they've got a simulation to satisfy their fantasy a bit.

Actually, on screen video game rape has already been done. Look up Custer's Revenge, an old 8-bit Atari game dating from 1982, which featured the central character raping a Native American woman bound to a cactus.

The_Metatron wrote:Pretend-rape for fun.

Yeah, I'm sure that's healthy.

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I wonder what's next; a game based on child rape?

Go to the cinema and watch Jason Voorhees and the crowd cheers when they see him. He also signs autographs at conventions, a good time is had by all.

Make a video game and the goody-two-shoe brigade (in their self-righteousness) are up in arms.

It’s called ‘pretending’ or fantasy or whatever. I used to play GTA in god mode and no one was safe... they all died. I was only stopped when the cops pinned me under a tank.