Misogyny and video game culture

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Re: AW: Misogyny and video game culture

#61  Postby Scar » Sep 07, 2014 2:24 pm

Rome Existed wrote:
VazScep wrote:
Rome Existed wrote:Casual refers to games that don't cost as much as a Jumbo Jet to make.
No, those are just indie games. Dwarf Fortress has far far less money put into it than Angry Birds, but the former requires a shit load of time to master and is designed to suck you into a single prolonged one player campaign, replete with rich stories about how that campaign played out, while the latter is something you can use to keep your five-year old quiet at the restaurant.

There are many more examples.

Jumbo-jet costs might also be spent on things largely irrelevant to the game as a game: asset creation, Kevin Spacey fees, advertising and so on. The tech you need to create a new game concept isn't expensive, and if you've got really fresh ideas, you probably want to avoid the expensive off-the-shelf game engines.


No, indie refers to the size of the development team. Indie games can still cost millions of dollars to make.

Also wrong. Indie is short for independent and refers to studios who aren't working under a (big) publisher
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#62  Postby tuco » Sep 10, 2014 7:39 pm

Three distinct segments of PC Gamers are defined in this report, all based on the types of games and number of hours played on computers: Heavy Core, Light Core, and Casual. Heavy Core gamers play core* games for five or more hours per week, while Light Core gamers still enjoy core games, but do so for less than five hours a week, and Casual gamers only play non-core games.

[snip]

Gender differences become apparent by type of gamer: Heavy Core and Light Core are comprised mainly of men while Casual PC gamers are overwhelmingly female.

[snip]

* In order to qualify as a core gamer, respondents had to currently play Action/Adventure, Fighting, Flight, Massively Multi-Player (MMO), Racing, Real Time Strategy, Role-Playing, Shooter, or Sport games on a PC/Mac.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/us/n ... -pc-games/
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You work for them Rome Existed? :)
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#63  Postby Varangian » Sep 10, 2014 11:07 pm

"Heavy core gamer" - guilty as charged! Racking up 4-5 hrs/day...
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#64  Postby tuco » Sep 10, 2014 11:27 pm

Remember John Nash in the movie where he was trying to figure out the pigeons? If he was online ..
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#65  Postby Rome Existed » Sep 11, 2014 11:45 pm

I'm seeing claims that the police have been contacted and they have denied having received a call from Anita Sarkeesian regarding these threats that she is claiming that she reported and was forced to flee her home.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#66  Postby Nicko » Sep 12, 2014 6:02 am

Rome Existed wrote:I'm seeing claims that the police have been contacted and they have denied having received a call from Anita Sarkeesian regarding these threats that she is claiming that she reported and was forced to flee her home.


I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#67  Postby Nicko » Sep 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Oh, I don't think this has been posted here yet. It's the blogpost from Zoe Quinn's ex wherein he accuses her of serial infidelity and abusive/manipulative behaviour.

Now, I really don't care if Quinn has difficulty with monogamy; so do many people, so fucking what. I care only slightly more that she had previously characterised sexual infidelity as bordering on rape. I do care about the abuse and manipulation, having experienced a bit of this myself.

The bombshell was that the guys Quinn slept with were all in a position to advance her career. Which did advance. Despite the fact that her "game" sucked balls. This takes the issue out of the private sphere and into the public.

That is what the legitimate issue here is about. Corruption in the gaming media. It's an issue that has been building for some time. It has involved a nagging sense of "something not quite right", observations of inappropriately "cosy" relationships (as in friendships rather than fucking, as a rule) between those who produce content and those who review it.

The whole Zoe Quinn "scandal" was simply a particularly egregious example of the culture of nepotism that has so quickly developed in gaming journalism. The straw that broke the camel's back.

Now, would that "straw" have had the effect it did without the extra weight of a bit of "slut shaming"? If, for example it had been a male creator sleeping with his female boss and female journalists? Perhaps not. Perhaps it would.

Regardless, this "scandal" should engender a discussion about objectivity and professional distance in gaming journalism.

Whether it does is another matter entirely.

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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#68  Postby Boyle » Sep 13, 2014 10:00 pm

Rome Existed wrote:I'm seeing claims that the police have been contacted and they have denied having received a call from Anita Sarkeesian regarding these threats that she is claiming that she reported and was forced to flee her home.

Yah, cause it turns out she contacted the FBI rather than SFPD. Which, honestly, makes sense cause what's the local PD gonna do?

Edit: Though that could be cause of the alleged CP craziness. I don't know too much about this nor the hubbub behind it.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#69  Postby Rome Existed » Sep 14, 2014 1:43 am

Boyle wrote:
Rome Existed wrote:I'm seeing claims that the police have been contacted and they have denied having received a call from Anita Sarkeesian regarding these threats that she is claiming that she reported and was forced to flee her home.

Yah, cause it turns out she contacted the FBI rather than SFPD. Which, honestly, makes sense cause what's the local PD gonna do?

Edit: Though that could be cause of the alleged CP craziness. I don't know too much about this nor the hubbub behind it.


Wasn't she claiming that the police wouldn't do anything? I guess they can't if you don't contact them.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#70  Postby Nicko » Sep 19, 2014 8:47 am

Another sane person speaks out. This time from within the gaming press.

Ashton Liu wrote:We currently find ourselves in an oddly opposite predicament than we were in a few short years ago. Gamers have changed. They don’t care about gender politics. They don’t care about sexuality. They don’t care about race. They just want to enjoy games and play with those who share their passion for gaming, regardless of what they identify as. Progressiveness has won, and is now the rule of the day. Gamers have leveled up, and are playing a new, better game.

It is now game journalists that refuse to change. They refuse to change, continuing to play an old, broken system that doesn’t work anymore. They have been left behind. They are the self-described cool kids in high school who can’t tolerate the fact that everyone else has grown up and don’t think they are cool anymore, so they utilize increasingly extreme and underhanded tactics to gain others’ approval, and when they fail, they accuse others of being “uncool.” Now that they can’t curry favor by being “cool” they resort to strong-arm tactics such as bullying. Game journalists cannot grasp that their methods do not work but instead of adapting to the new environment they stamp their feet and hold their breath until they are blue in the face. If game journalism is to have any respectability as an industry, then this kind of unprofessional and disrespectful behavior needs to stop. It is absolutely unacceptable and should not be tolerated.

These journalists believe they can hide behind “progressiveness” and claim to represent the only defense minorities have against the “straight white male” gamer, despite being almost exclusively straight, white, and male themselves. I am a minority and I absolutely repudiate what they are doing. I am not a tool to be used to defend their incompetence as journalists. I am not an excuse for them to act as bullies. I am not a shield to be used to deflect legitimate complaints aimed at their vitriol and hatefulness. I am not a convenient defense one second, a liability the next.


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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#71  Postby epepke » Sep 19, 2014 1:46 pm

Now that the "casual" suit has been broken, most of the games I play are point-and-click adventure games. There seems to be an unlimited supply, most of them very good, most of them made in former Eastern Bloc countries. I used to play shooters, but I've long since gotten bored with them. Anyway, these games are called "casual," which seems a bit unfair, as they are often extremely sophisticated and have gotten the narrative down pat.

They all seem specifically marketed toward and designed for women. Almost all of the raisoneurs are female or gender-neutral. Almost never is one male, and when one is, it's usually a lover of a central female character. There are also some rather sophisticated ways in which the female visual system is targeted.

It seems to me that these discussions are largely about finding a subset of gaming which is sexist or misogynistic or whatever bad category you want to put in it, jumping up and down a lot and shrieking about how gaming in general is bad, and then coming up with categories in order to show that anything that doesn't fit into the shrieking just doesn't count.

Which is, of course, exactly what people do when they want to be sexist about women or racist about whomever. It's an art. You simply leave anything that doesn't support your favorite stereotype out of the picture. In which case, a lot of people need a nice big steamy cup of STFU.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#72  Postby Matthew Shute » Sep 20, 2014 5:04 pm

http://www.oppressionquest.com/

:tehe:

In fairness, I expected Depression Quest to be pretty terrible, but it isn't quite as bad as I'd been led to think - it's just a very basic, very simple "choose your own adventure" type, exploring the unusual topic of coping with a mental illness. Given that the "best" option is usually glaringly obvious, and the game is pretty short, there's no replay value at all. You can basically play it two ways: leave your character with his/her life falling apart or get your character to the point where his/her life is going pretty well. You won't come back for a third go. For a free game, I can't complain too much about anything in it; it's just not exactly Liberal Crime Squad in terms of fun or replay value.

Now if you want to play a truly shitty and pretentious text-based "game", try this. Remarkably, it was made by the creator of The Stanley Parable, the frequently intriguing and funny "find all the endings" exploration game.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#73  Postby VazScep » Sep 21, 2014 12:36 am

epepke wrote:Now that the "casual" suit has been broken, most of the games I play are point-and-click adventure games. There seems to be an unlimited supply, most of them very good, most of them made in former Eastern Bloc countries. I used to play shooters, but I've long since gotten bored with them. Anyway, these games are called "casual," which seems a bit unfair, as they are often extremely sophisticated and have gotten the narrative down pat.
Based on your posting history, I assume you're talking about Myst style games. For me, point-and-click adventure is something that was invented by Lucasarts and Maniac Mansion. I'd left these for dead some time ago, until Yahtzee (of Zero Punctuation fame) created the Chzo Mythos. Since then, I'm played the most awesome genre-savvy adventure game Ben there, Dan that, and appreciated the effort put into the minimalist "The Last Door".

I don't know which gender these games are targetted towards. But they're orders of magnitude less retarded than most games I see advertised.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#74  Postby Nicko » Sep 21, 2014 7:52 am

Matthew Shute wrote:http://www.oppressionquest.com/

:tehe:


Oh you.

:tehe:

Matthew Shute wrote:In fairness, I expected Depression Quest to be pretty terrible, but it isn't quite as bad as I'd been led to think - it's just a very basic, very simple "choose your own adventure" type, exploring the unusual topic of coping with a mental illness. Given that the "best" option is usually glaringly obvious, and the game is pretty short, there's no replay value at all. You can basically play it two ways: leave your character with his/her life falling apart or get your character to the point where his/her life is going pretty well. You won't come back for a third go. For a free game, I can't complain too much about anything in it; it's just not exactly Liberal Crime Squad in terms of fun or replay value.


I actually expected it to be a bit better in putting the player "in the head" of the depressed person. The story stays pretty objective throughout, when an unreliable narrator would have been a better choice. It is, as you say, just too easy to see the way to "win" the "game".

Matthew Shute wrote:Now if you want to play a truly shitty and pretentious text-based "game", try this. Remarkably, it was made by the creator of The Stanley Parable, the frequently intriguing and funny "find all the endings" exploration game.


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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#75  Postby Varangian » Sep 22, 2014 6:37 pm

Nicko wrote:This blog post also makes some excellent points (I think the threats against Jack Thompson have already been mentioned).


The blog has been taken down, but the Internet Wayback Machine saves the day!

New link.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#76  Postby Nicko » Oct 19, 2014 8:27 am

Pretty comprehensive update on what has been going on.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#77  Postby Thommo » Oct 19, 2014 12:25 pm

Missed this thread until now.

An interesting read, though waaaaaaaay too reasonable a tone compared to like... everywhere else on the internets.

I have lots of thoughts related to this topic, but not sure how many are really germane right now, aside from saying that statistics regarding "casual" gamers and ESO statistics showing a 52:48 gender split in gaming don't really relate to how the word "casual" gets used in online games, the ESO statistics count equally me (someone whose entire leisure time is related to gaming) and my mother (who plays the free solitaire game that comes with windows for 5-10 minutes a day between tasks) equally, each as a gamer. In terms of how that should influence character design of, say, the next GTA game the 52:48 split is a spurious statistic, what matters is the split in games similar to GTA, which could be better approximated by, say, a ratio of annual spending split by gender if direct data is not available.

Oh, and I quite liked depression quest (as a free online page, would not pay for it on steam), not so much as a "game" but as a piece of interactive fiction, where the whole exercise is trying to put yourself in the state of mind where not taking the obviously "best" answers is appropriate. It's an exercise in empathy and role playing and will utterly fail if you metagame it.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#78  Postby Thommo » Oct 19, 2014 4:40 pm

Nicko wrote:Pretty comprehensive update on what has been going on.


:rofl:

At 30mins when it starts on about gamer plus. :lol:
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#79  Postby Animavore » Oct 19, 2014 4:57 pm

I wonder what the statistics are for people who aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to "gamergate" and are just playing their games.
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Re: Misogyny and video game culture

#80  Postby Varangian » Oct 19, 2014 5:34 pm

Animavore wrote:I wonder what the statistics are for people who aren't paying the slightest bit of attention to "gamergate" and are just playing their games.

I'm too busy shooting prostitutes in GTA to stay updated. What is the fuss all about?

Just kidding. Playing Mass Effect and War Thunder.
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